This Side of Paradise question (spoiler)

emergencyfruit · August 22 2012, 05:31 AM

Maybe I missed something here, but in This Side of Paradise, what provokes Kirk into finding out that anger will overcome the spores is the fact that no one is there to transport him down to the colony. He realizes that he is stranded because he cannot simultaneously operate the transporter and beam down. He states that he is the last person on board.

So...how did the last mutinying crewperson get down? Wouldn't this person have had the exact same problem? Kirk wouldn't have participated in the mutiny by beaming that person down, presumably. Am I missing something?

SchwEnt · August 22 2012, 06:10 AM

I don't think transporter frustration was the source of Kirk's anger.

Also, we've seen individuals set the transporter for automatic/delayed transport so that needn't have been a problem here.

Burma Ryder · August 22 2012, 06:26 AM

If I am not mistaken, the thing that prompted Kirk to fight the spores was a medal (which I do not believe we are ever told what medal it is exactly) that he pulls out of a compartment in his quarters. Presumably this medal reminds him of his duty and dedication to the ship and crew. This drive in Kirk is more powerful that the spores' influece. An internal biological conflict ensues and Kirk's passion for this duty overcomes in the end.

emergencyfruit · August 22 2012, 06:37 AM

Ah, that makes sense. As he stands at the transporter after packing his things, something dawns on him and he cries, "No! I can't leave!" The tone made it sound like a statement that he literally could not exit the ship, but casting it as a philosophical/moral resistance fits better and is much more interesting. I had been wondering about the point of the medal scene, actually. Thanks for tying it up!

Burma Ryder · August 22 2012, 06:55 AM

No worries!

I would like to know what Kirk received that medal for exactly.
Anyone have any info?

Timo · August 22 2012, 07:01 AM

Well, "Court Martial" lists Kirk as the recipient of

-Palm Leaf of Axanar Peace Mission
-Grankite Order of Tactics, Class of Excellence
-Prantares Ribbon of Commendation, Classes I and II

before the prosecution interrupts.

This thing doesn't much look like a palm leaf to me, but it does have a laurel pattern to the outer rim, so perhaps...

http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albu...radise_391.jpg

It's definitely not a ribbon, though.

..no one is there to transport him down to the colony..

We could argue that this is in fact a factor in waking him up at that specific moment. Not that there would be nobody to beam him down - but that, standing next to the console and setting it on "autobeam", Kirk realizes that there will be nobody to beam him back up again, so the next keypress will be the one to separate him from his starship forever. This makes the moment more poignant than the preceding ones, as it sort of rushes together all the preceding feelings of nostalgia, success and duty.

Timo Saloniemi

T'Girl · August 22 2012, 07:08 PM

Timo wrote:

there will be nobody to beam him back up

Just like in The Enemy Within, there come into play the fact that the ship has shuttlecraft and a flight deck, with the need to explain why they can't (or won't) be used.

Redfern · August 22 2012, 08:01 PM

Well, if they all supposedly beamed down and did not take any shuttles, well, there would not be any shuttles to fly back to the ship, thus, you're still "stranded".

If, on the other hand, a few crew piloted shuttles to the ground, yes, that would negate the problems getting back. Now, we discovered during Decker's suicide run with the shuttle that the doors can at least be opened (from inside the bay) within the shuttle. But we can't say for sure about a shuttle outside the ship. A deck controller might be required.

So, we have the same problem as with the transporter. On the other hand, if the colony has a transporter station that can transmit and well as simply receive, then someone could return, providing the ship's shields are down.

Sincerely,

Bill

Timo · August 22 2012, 08:13 PM

If, on the other hand, a few crew piloted shuttles to the ground, yes, that would negate the problems getting back.

But why would they do that, when they expressly hope never to return? The shuttles would be worse than useless for people wanting to live like the Amish.

The "can't" is immaterial when the "won't" is so obvious.

Timo Saloniemi

scotpens · August 22 2012, 08:26 PM

emergencyfruit wrote:

. . . As he stands at the transporter after packing his things, something dawns on him and he cries, "No! I can't leave!"

Actually, it's more like:

"NO! . . . I . . . can't . . . LEAVE!!

Shatner's drawn-out delivery drives home the point, I think. There's an inner conflict going on between the spore influence and Kirk's dedication to his command and his ship. And, of course, we know which has to win in the end.

Timewalker · August 23 2012, 03:18 AM

I suppose one could speculate that since Uhura deliberately sabotaged the communications capabilities except for ship/shore, some of the Engineering crew could have similarly sabotaged the shuttles to prevent anybody trying to leave the ship and tell Starfleet about the situation.

CorporalCaptain · August 23 2012, 03:31 AM

scotpens wrote:

Actually, it's more like:

"NO! . . . I . . . can't . . . LEAVE!!

I love this delivery. It's one of the high points of the episode, if not the high point.

AtoZ · August 24 2012, 01:22 AM

CorporalCaptain wrote:

scotpens wrote:

Actually, it's more like:

"NO! . . . I . . . can't . . . LEAVE!!

I love this delivery. It's one of the high points of the episode, if not the high point.

The medal scene and how it plays into Shatner's delivery at the transporter console are to me brilliant and the high point of the episode.

I also love the scene with McCoy relaxing under the shade of his favorite tree....and how fast he become confrontational and offers to play the tough guy. Great moments in this episode, IMO.

Timewalker · August 24 2012, 01:32 AM

I thought it was cute when Spock was enthusiastically explaining a "mint julep" to Kirk: "That's a DRINK, Jim!!!

"

scotpens · August 31 2012, 10:26 PM

AtoZ wrote:

The medal scene and how it plays into Shatner's delivery at the transporter console are to me brilliant and the high point of the episode.

For me, the best dialogue in the episode is Spock's parting speech to Leila.

I have a responsibility to this ship, to that man on the bridge. I am what I am, Leila, and if there are self-made purgatories, then we all have to live in them. Mine can be no worse than someone else's.

That scene still makes me cry like a little girl.

August 22 2012, 05:31 AM	#1
emergencyfruit Lieutenant Junior Grade Location: Minnesota, USA	This Side of Paradise question (spoiler) Maybe I missed something here, but in This Side of Paradise, what provokes Kirk into finding out that anger will overcome the spores is the fact that no one is there to transport him down to the colony. He realizes that he is stranded because he cannot simultaneously operate the transporter and beam down. He states that he is the last person on board. So...how did the last mutinying crewperson get down? Wouldn't this person have had the exact same problem? Kirk wouldn't have participated in the mutiny by beaming that person down, presumably. Am I missing something?

August 22 2012, 06:10 AM	#2
SchwEnt Fleet Captain	Re: This Side of Paradise question (spoiler) I don't think transporter frustration was the source of Kirk's anger. Also, we've seen individuals set the transporter for automatic/delayed transport so that needn't have been a problem here.

August 22 2012, 06:26 AM	#3
Burma Ryder Lieutenant Commander	Re: This Side of Paradise question (spoiler) If I am not mistaken, the thing that prompted Kirk to fight the spores was a medal (which I do not believe we are ever told what medal it is exactly) that he pulls out of a compartment in his quarters. Presumably this medal reminds him of his duty and dedication to the ship and crew. This drive in Kirk is more powerful that the spores' influece. An internal biological conflict ensues and Kirk's passion for this duty overcomes in the end.

August 22 2012, 06:37 AM	#4
emergencyfruit Lieutenant Junior Grade Location: Minnesota, USA	Re: This Side of Paradise question (spoiler) Ah, that makes sense. As he stands at the transporter after packing his things, something dawns on him and he cries, "No! I can't leave!" The tone made it sound like a statement that he literally could not exit the ship, but casting it as a philosophical/moral resistance fits better and is much more interesting. I had been wondering about the point of the medal scene, actually. Thanks for tying it up!

August 22 2012, 06:55 AM	#5
Burma Ryder Lieutenant Commander	Re: This Side of Paradise question (spoiler) No worries! I would like to know what Kirk received that medal for exactly. Anyone have any info?

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August 22 2012, 08:01 PM	#8
Redfern Fleet Captain Location: Georgia, USA	Re: This Side of Paradise question (spoiler) Well, if they all supposedly beamed down and did not take any shuttles, well, there would not be any shuttles to fly back to the ship, thus, you're still "stranded". If, on the other hand, a few crew piloted shuttles to the ground, yes, that would negate the problems getting back. Now, we discovered during Decker's suicide run with the shuttle that the doors can at least be opened (from inside the bay) within the shuttle. But we can't say for sure about a shuttle outside the ship. A deck controller might be required. So, we have the same problem as with the transporter. On the other hand, if the colony has a transporter station that can transmit and well as simply receive, then someone could return, providing the ship's shields are down. Sincerely, Bill __________________ Tempt the Hand of Fate and it'll give you the "finger"! Freighter Tails: the Misadventures of Mzzkiti

August 23 2012, 03:18 AM	#11
Timewalker Commodore Location: In many different universes, simultaneously.	Re: This Side of Paradise question (spoiler) I suppose one could speculate that since Uhura deliberately sabotaged the communications capabilities except for ship/shore, some of the Engineering crew could have similarly sabotaged the shuttles to prevent anybody trying to leave the ship and tell Starfleet about the situation. __________________ "Let's give it to Riker. He'll eat anything!"

August 24 2012, 01:32 AM	#14
Timewalker Commodore Location: In many different universes, simultaneously.	Re: This Side of Paradise question (spoiler) I thought it was cute when Spock was enthusiastically explaining a "mint julep" to Kirk: "That's a DRINK, Jim!!! " __________________ "Let's give it to Riker. He'll eat anything!"