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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old August 19 2012, 10:51 AM   #61
Therin of Andor
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Re: Why Did Gene drop Christopher Pike?

Drago-Kazov wrote: View Post
Was it ever explained in a comic or a book why Pike wanted to become a slave trader?
Who said he wanted to? Wasn't this just an illusion to tempt him to wanting to stay on Talos IV?

http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Christopher_Pike
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Old August 19 2012, 11:10 AM   #62
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Re: Why Did Gene drop Christopher Pike?

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Drago-Kazov wrote: View Post
Was it ever explained in a comic or a book why Pike wanted to become a slave trader?
Who said he wanted to? Wasn't this just an illusion to tempt him to wanting to stay on Talos IV?

http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Christopher_Pike
From http://www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/1.htm:
PIKE: To the point of considering resigning.
BOYCE: And do what?
PIKE: Well, for one thing, go home. Nice little town with fifty miles of parkland around it. Remember I told you I had two horses, and we used to take some food and ride out all day.
BOYCE: Ah, that sounds exciting. Ride out with a picnic lunch every day.
PIKE: I said that's one place I might go. I might go into business on Regulus or on the Orion colony.
BOYCE: You, an Orion trader, dealing in green animal women, slaves?
PIKE: The point is this isn't the only life available. There's a whole galaxy of things to choose from.
That foreshadows two of the illusions right there, and they had just discussed the fight on Rigel VII, a third.
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Old August 19 2012, 01:00 PM   #63
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Re: Why Did Gene drop Christopher Pike?

Now i get it thanks, i certainly hope just wanted to make a point.
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Old August 19 2012, 01:18 PM   #64
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Re: Why Did Gene drop Christopher Pike?

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
That foreshadows two of the illusions right there, and they had just discussed the fight on Rigel VII, a third.
Sure, but he doesn't say that's what he wants to do, just that he could, if he so chose. And, even if he was a trader on Orion, it's the doc who anticipates that he means trading in slaves.
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Old August 19 2012, 02:18 PM   #65
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Re: Why Did Gene drop Christopher Pike?

Yeah, I'm sure there are many forms of "business... on the Orion colony" other than slave trading; Boyce just jumped to the most infamous one in order to ridicule Pike's suggestion. Or to make the point that even if he tried to open a legitimate business there, he'd be working alongside the likes of slave traders and other illicit professions, so it would be a disreputable place to go into business.
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Old August 19 2012, 03:17 PM   #66
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Re: Why Did Gene drop Christopher Pike?

And of course we learn later on Enterprise that the Orion "slave women" were not really slaves after all.
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Old August 19 2012, 04:56 PM   #67
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Re: Why Did Gene drop Christopher Pike?

Captain Shatner wrote: View Post
Before you accuse me of Shatner-hating, let me refer you to my username to prove my admiration for him. That being said...I couldn't see Pike overacting the way Kirk did. Imagine him in this sequence. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAvRBDQqSmY
Admittedly, the poor writing of And the Children Shall Lead didn't help, but even so...
"They were talking to me! To ME, Steve!"

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Old August 20 2012, 11:49 AM   #68
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Re: Why Did Gene drop Christopher Pike?

I think we have to be cautious about forming too rigid a view of any actor in his first appearance in any role. It takes a lot of them a little time to get to grips with the character and indeed writers may not always have decided where they're going with that character.

I earlier used the example of Picard coming across as edgier and less confident in Encounter at Fairpoint and I think that Avery Brooks and Kate Mulgrew improved as Sisko and Janeway respectively as time went on.

I don't know if it's true or not but I've heard that in Doctor Who, the producers usually film the first episode in which viewers will see the new actor make his first full appearance out of sequence. That is to say, for example, Matt Smith would have filmed a couple of episodes before filming The Eleventh Hour, his Doctor's first full episode, so as to allow him time to get used to the role and find his feet; the producers know how crucial that first episode is and how much weight viewers will put on it, so they want the actor to be settled in it.

Obviously this couldn't have happened with The Cage or indeed most US tv pilot episodes which, unlike DW, don't have the luxury of knowing that there'll be a full series at the end of it.
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Old August 20 2012, 12:33 PM   #69
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Re: Why Did Gene drop Christopher Pike?

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
That foreshadows two of the illusions right there, and they had just discussed the fight on Rigel VII, a third.
Sure, but he doesn't say that's what he wants to do, just that he could, if he so chose. And, even if he was a trader on Orion, it's the doc who anticipates that he means trading in slaves.
My point was that Orion wasn't "just an illusion to tempt him to wanting to stay on Talos IV," insofar as that it and the other illusions weren't indiscriminately chosen. Every illusory scenario he experienced was drawn from his own mind.

But there is an additional point that I didn't state. The Orion illusion scene according to http://www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/1.htm is:
(A band plays, and a green woman dances sensuously)
OFFICER: Nice place you have here, Mister Pike.
(The dancer is -)
PIKE: Vina?
ORION: Glistening green. Almost like secret dreams a bored ship captain might have.
OFFICER: Funny how they are on this planet. They actually like being taken advantage of. Suppose you had all of space to choose from, and this was only one small sample.
ORION: Wouldn't you say it was worth a man's soul?
The point being made in the dialog is that Pike is being tempted not necessarily with this particular illusion, but rather with the possibility that he can experience any reality that he might desire - with Vina.

Given what Vina said in the horse illusion, it's reasonable to assume that she's right about him: he's curious about Orion because it represents a lifestyle that he can't have.

So yeah, I do agree with the point that Orion is not necessarily, or even really, what he wants. But I was never trying to suggest that it was.
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Old August 20 2012, 02:32 PM   #70
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Re: Why Did Gene drop Christopher Pike?

Captaindemotion wrote: View Post
I think we have to be cautious about forming too rigid a view of any actor in his first appearance in any role. It takes a lot of them a little time to get to grips with the character and indeed writers may not always have decided where they're going with that character.
.
Good point. If you watch the very first CSI episode, they haven't quite got Grissom's character down yet. He occasionally throws a "punk" up against a wall and mouths pretty standard TV-cop dialogue. The bemused eccentricity was something they developed more later.

And I think I remember reading an interview with Nimoy where he talks about finally getting a handle on Spock.
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Old August 20 2012, 03:03 PM   #71
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Re: Why Did Gene drop Christopher Pike?

And that's my whole point about Kirk -- that in the early first season, they were basically writing him as the exact same character that Pike was, just with his name changed -- a serious, brooding career officer with no time for women ("Mudd's Women"), a discomfort with being assigned a female yeoman ("The Corbomite Maneuver"), a longing for freedom from the discipline of his command ("The Naked Time"), and a tendency toward self-doubt which required pep talks from his doctor/friend ("Balance of Terror"). He only later evolved into the Kirk we know as Shatner's performance (and probably network pressure to make him a more conventional, accessible, womanizing action hero) affected how the character was written.
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Old August 22 2012, 05:38 AM   #72
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Re: Why Did Gene drop Christopher Pike?

Maurice wrote: View Post
^^^No, because Desilu wasn't part of Paramount, then.
Right, but Nimoy does say something about Hunter wanting movie deals. It is during one of the interviews from the box set that came out in 2003 or so; the Yellow, Blue, and Red plastic box sets.
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Old August 22 2012, 03:08 PM   #73
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Re: Why Did Gene drop Christopher Pike?

^Well, interviews conducted decades after the fact aren't always completely accurate. Not long ago I saw an interview where Nimoy talked about his Mission: Impossible tenure, and he misremembered or forgot a lot of things.
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Old August 22 2012, 03:45 PM   #74
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Re: Why Did Gene drop Christopher Pike?

Given what Vina said in the horse illusion, it's reasonable to assume that she's right about him: he's curious about Orion because it represents a lifestyle that he can't have.
Then again, one plausible sequence of events is this:

* Pike seriously considers doing reputable trading on Orion, there being nothing exotic about it as such.
* Boyce makes fun of this, pointing out that Orion is also home to disreputable things (or then not - perhaps it's just a comical stereotype, like everybody from Louisiana making moonshine for celebrating marrying his daughter).
* Pike ignores the jab, but his subconscious absorbs it.
* When called forth, the subconscious is eager to embrace the idea of Pike as an Orion slave trader, quite regardless of whether such things even exist for real.

Orion slave trade doesn't get any further mention in aired Star Trek; rather, it gets a prequel of sorts in ENT. Perhaps the phenomenon was in the distant past already when Pike was born?

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Old August 22 2012, 03:58 PM   #75
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Re: Why Did Gene drop Christopher Pike?

I'm willing to assume that we are supposed to believe that the so-called slave trade exists contemporaneously with Pike and that he and Boyce have both heard about it from reputable sources. I never had any doubt about that; still don't.
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