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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old August 21 2012, 02:20 AM   #1456
flemm
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I've never been a huge fan of how this retcon of Bashir's character was handled. From a certain point of view, it can really be seen as character assassination (because it basically reveals he has been a fraud all along). Then there's also the fact that they tried to turn him into DS9's Data/Spock, which worked so poorly that they then basically dropped it.

While it produces a couple of decent moments later on, I think Section 31 really worked better as a way of making the good Doctor more interesting.

It's true that genetic engineering is a good topic to address. But... for the most part I don't think this ever really produced anything that made the retcon worthwhile. Maybe Statistical Probabilities, I guess.
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Old August 21 2012, 03:18 AM   #1457
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I think the genetic engineering reveal actually ties up a couple of strings of Bashir's character. He missed a simple question on his final exam and lost out on being valedictorian. He could have been a tennis pro but never made it. To me, it makes those earlier episodes even more interesting after learning his secret.
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Old August 21 2012, 03:22 AM   #1458
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

InklingStar wrote: View Post
I think the genetic engineering reveal actually ties up a couple of strings of Bashir's character. He missed a simple question on his final exam and lost out on being valedictorian. He could have been a tennis pro but never made it. To me, it makes those earlier episodes even more interesting after learning his secret.
Well, I'm going from memory here, but... doesn't the genetic engineering change the motivations for all of that? He's really smarter than everybody, has better hand/eye coordination, etc., but is trying to "blend in"?
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Old August 21 2012, 04:31 AM   #1459
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

flemm wrote: View Post
InklingStar wrote: View Post
I think the genetic engineering reveal actually ties up a couple of strings of Bashir's character. He missed a simple question on his final exam and lost out on being valedictorian. He could have been a tennis pro but never made it. To me, it makes those earlier episodes even more interesting after learning his secret.
Well, I'm going from memory here, but... doesn't the genetic engineering change the motivations for all of that? He's really smarter than everybody, has better hand/eye coordination, etc., but is trying to "blend in"?
DS9 is full of things that weren't planned out in advance, but end up working pretty well when you look at them in hindsight. One of Trakor's prophecies, for example, way back in "Destiny," was about the Emissary facing a fiery trial. Fire caves, anyone?

Bashir's genetic alterations aren't that different. Sure, they put his previous actions in a different light. So what? As you get to know someone in real life, their previous actions may make more sense as you learn more about them.

And Bashir's not the only one to receive this treatment. Eddington's behavior in "For The Cause" puts his conversation with Sisko in "The Adversary" (the one about command versus security) in a different light, should you choose to interpret it that way.

As for Bashir being salutatorian, deciding not to pursue tennis, hell, even his decision to leave Earth and that cushy surgery job in Paris, I tend to think that those weren't so much conscious attempts to blend in as they were the unconscious results of a psychology that's been forced to lie for an entire lifetime. When you must keep something a total secret, you don't keep it in the forefront of your thoughts. Bashir didn't spend 25 years of his life saying, "I can't do that because it'll make my genetic enhancements obvious," he spent 25 years of his life saying, "I can't do that," out of habit.

In some ways, his genetic status helps explain some of the early flaws in Bashir's character. For one thing, as young as he is, he is still much less mature than you would expect. Stuff like that sometimes (not always, of course, but sometimes) is the result of childhood/adolescent trauma that knocks your development off-kilter. Bashir's got a few episodes in his past that could qualify: undergoing a major medical procedure that he didn't understand at age 6, finding out ten years later that his parents had made his entire life a lie... you could even argue that his early childhood deficits were traumatic, though I wouldn't personally make that argument, since it doesn't seem (from the episode) that Bashir felt particularly traumatized by this phase of his life.

Also, his boyish enthusiasm could, in fact, have been a cultivated "safety net"; if he slipped up and did something truly extraordinary, it could be chalked up to all that enthusiasm. It wouldn't surprise me if something like that had happened somewhere in Bashir's past, and he discovered by accident that he could extricate himself from the situation by being so darn enthusiastic.

Bashir's lack of relationship with his family is hinted at in "Homefront," when he tells Odo that there's no one on Earth for him.

Bashir's penchant for spy games could be a convoluted way for him to deal, psychologically, with having to hold such a big secret (and maybe a few other related ones).

Even Bashir's "Not quite. Close." story to O'Brien in "Armageddon Game" has a bit of a Garak quality to it, as if the truth is indeed in there, but is being... simplified, for our benefit. I wouldn't be surprised if Bashir turned down the cushy surgery position because he knew it would catapult him too high too quickly, and give reason for scrutiny.

Indeed, Bashir has had to live almost his entire life with a little voice in the back of his mind saying, "Don't be perfect. Don't be perfect." His early social flubs with Kira and O'Brien (and Dax, too) spring to mind.

Honestly, without some sort of revelation, I think Bashir would've ended up being the least developed and least interesting character in DS9. "Doctor Bashir, I Presume?" suddenly makes a whole lot of would-be missed opportunities in early episodes more interesting.

I'm not sure the Section 31 storyline could have happened without "DB,IP?"; 31 needed a reason to be interested in him beyond his love of spy games. Making him enhanced tosses in the whole question of playing god (which Bashir does as a doctor already, see "Life Support"), and weaves in some discussion of elitism/eugenics, which 31 try to use to manipulate him.

Also, I'm not sure I really see that Data/Spock parallel; DS9 had Odo (and to a lesser extent, Quark, Worf and even Garak) to do that. If anything, Bashir became a humanized version of Data/Spock, removing the observer status. But even that parallel is superficial at best, imo.
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Old August 21 2012, 08:05 PM   #1460
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Paper Moon wrote: View Post
Honestly, without some sort of revelation, I think Bashir would've ended up being the least developed and least interesting character in DS9.

Well, I think that was partly what motivated the change, yeah. I think also he tended to register as the least popular regular character at the time.

I can also see why Siddig really didn't like it, though, especially the early attempts to duplicate Data-like computations. This is what I meant by it being an attempt to turn him into DS9's Data: early in the next season there are a couple of scenes like this, where he makes calculations faster than the ship's computer. You can almost see the distaste in Siddig's performance. Then they dropped it, basically.

Anyway, I'm not saying you should agree it was a bad idea, or that it was not a valid choice in some abstract way. I just never really liked it, and didn't think it was worth it.

I think Section 31 would have worked anyway, as the main story there was the combination of his interest in being a spy and his idealism being put to the test. Certainly Section 31 must have a lot of operatives that are not genetically engineered or similar.
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Old August 21 2012, 08:25 PM   #1461
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

flemm wrote: View Post
Paper Moon wrote: View Post
Honestly, without some sort of revelation, I think Bashir would've ended up being the least developed and least interesting character in DS9.

Well, I think that was partly what motivated the change, yeah. I think also he tended to register as the least popular regular character at the time.

I can also see why Siddig really didn't like it, though, especially the early attempts to duplicate Data-like computations. This is what I meant by it being an attempt to turn him into DS9's Data: early in the next season there are a couple of scenes like this, where he makes calculations faster than the ship's computer. You can almost see the distaste in Siddig's performance. Then they dropped it, basically.
Oh, okay, I see what you mean. Yeah, you're right, they did tone in down quite a bit, which is probably good.

And I agree that the way Siddig found out really isn't okay. In his position, I would have been pretty pissed. "What, first I'm changeling and now I'm genetically enhanced too? What's next?"

Anyway, I'm not saying you should agree it was a bad idea, or that it was not a valid choice in some abstract way. I just never really liked it, and didn't think it was worth it.
I should probably walk back my enthusiasm for the whole idea a bit. I think it can be made to make sense in the fun way that many other things in DS9 can be made to make sense ex post facto, but the sudden, rash decision in-and-of-itself was definitely a poor production call. Sorta like, in-universe, it's cool, but out-of-universe, not so much. The idea was good, the decision and execution were not. So I definitely understand where you're coming from.

I think Section 31 would have worked anyway, as the main story there was the combination of his interest in being a spy and his idealism being put to the test. Certainly Section 31 must have a lot of operatives that are not genetically engineered or similar.
I wouldn't be too sure of that, actually. I'd bet that a lot of 31 operatives have some sort of superiority complex (or at least a latent one), and Bashir's enhancements did give him, theoretically, such a complex.

But in any case, I'm just not sure it would have made sense from a story perspective to have 31 be interested in a non-enhanced Bashir. Why try to take an overly idealistic Starfleet officer and try to convert him to a ruthless and utterly pragmatic cause? Why not take someone we already know to make morally questionable calls in the name of the greater good (like Sisko when dealing with Eddington, or eventually during the Vreenak affair, or Worf during "Rules of Engagement") and work to convert them instead?

And I just don't buy Bashir's spy programs as reason for 31 to be interested. They're just that– games, and in 31's place, I'd be worried that Bashir would treat a real spy mission as just another game. Too much risk.
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Old August 21 2012, 09:07 PM   #1462
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I don't what you other guys are complaining about, but Bashir turning out to be genetically engineered was the best thing that could have happened to the character. Suddenly he became distinctive, and a candidate for the forthcoming Section 31 plots (and Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges is one of the most coolest, cleverest and complicated episodes ever!). Without this Bashir would have been another Harry Kim, always there but never really standing out.

At last Bashir is standing out, plus his parents were cool, I love Bashir's father's English accent. For the most part this revelation about Bashir being genetically engineered fits rather decently with all the development and characteristics of his character.
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Old August 21 2012, 09:15 PM   #1463
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Yeah, the genetic enhancement storyline only helped Bashir. I liked him before then, but I won't disagree that without it he was kind of underdeveloped. I just wish they'd come up with the idea a few years sooner so that they could have laid down the groundwork properly.
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Old August 22 2012, 04:08 PM   #1464
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

"Doctor Bashir, I Presume?" shows another dark side of 24th century Earth/Federation society. But this time we can't blame DS9 for creating it. It was created by Gene Roddenberry himself back in TOS. Yes, I'm talking about the negative view of genetic engineering.

I actually really like this "new" aspect of Bashir. Really develops his character. And put all of him in a new light.

But before I get into that, let me talk a little bit about the rest of the episode. Starting with the other "dark" side of 24th century humanity presented here: Richard Bashir. Here we have, really for the first time ever on Star Trek, a "failed/looser" human. Richard succeeds at nothing. And he isn't comfortable with that. He continues to move from one failed project to the next, lying about all his "successes" along the way. And I like that. Too often we are told that Earth is a paradise and all of humanity is awesome and in great shape doing exactly what they want in life, "enriching the world in which they live". Well, not EVERYBODY can be successes. Not everybody can have their perfect job. Somebody has to do the crap jobs like "waste processor", etc. Unless all crap jobs are done by robots or something. (There are surprisingly few robots cleaning up the back-ground of Star Trek society.)

I liked Rom and Leeta getting together. And it was done in a fun, but realistic way.

Robert Picardo was great, as usual. And it was nice that Louis Zimmerman was actually fairly well developed for a guest character. Sure, he's a bit of a jerk, but he's also quite charming . . . and a genius of course.

I loved the development of the friendship between Miles and Julian.

OK, now I'll talk about the elephant in the room, genetic engineering.

I think the way the genetically enhanced appear to be treated in Federation is wrong. They are being singled out and treated like criminals, having unfair limitations put on their lives just because some "artificial/unnatural" means was used to turn them into who they are today. Why should that mater? They, like everyone else, should be judged solely on their actions in a democratic society like 24th century Earth/Federation, not on unimportant things like genetic differences. Heck, even a number of states in the modern-day USA have laws against discrimination based on genetic differences.

Even if you concede that genetic engineering is wrong (which I don't), you still shouldn't punish the innocent. Julian had no say in the genetic engineering that happen to him as a child. He didn't even know it had happen until he was 15. It was his parents' decision, not his.
(Side note, I love how Jules decided to change his name to Julian once he found out about his nature. I think names are so important to someone's identity. And when you learn something that significant about yourself, a change in name seems appropriate. [This from someone who had his name legally changed to Data.])

I think you can't (shouldn't) treat someone differently just because you question where they come from. You can't withhold them from participating in society just because they are smarter or stronger. Only if they have other issues or reasons they can't fit into society. Real reasons, like severe autism or pervasive personality disorder.

Some would argue that you can't allow anyone to reap the benefits of their illegal genetic tampering because it will just motivated more to go do it. And I think that's ridiculous because there's nothing intrinsically wrong with genetic enhancements. Having more abilities does not make you a power-raving madman like Khan Noonien Singh just because. That's a circular argument I never agreed with Star Trek on.

If the argument that "superior ability breeds superior ambition" is to be taken as a truism, then it means that EVERY SINGLE creature of advanced ability will become a power-hungry criminal like Khan. But if you admit that Bashir would never do that, then you must admit that not EVERY single advanced person will make immoral decisions or "think like that".

Therefore, I argue that there is no moral ground to curtail their lives, nor people who choose to bring them into the world. It's part-and-parcel in a democratic society like the Federation: equality for all, innocent until proven guilty. You have to prove that a person is a danger to society before you can over-ride their civil liberties. And even if the genetically engineered do TEND to be meglomaniac (which I don't concede), you still can't just take away civil liberties from the entire group based on the majority. Ever single person must be treated separately, requiring their own separate burden of proof before society can take away their rights.

And people are not dangers to society just because they are more capable. Even if they do tend to be more "ambitious", that does not mean that that ambition will lead to criminal or immoral acts. It takes ambition to become a doctor and help people, too.

And genetically engineered do not have a monopoly on crime. There are plenty of examples of non-augmented common men that did horrible things. One example off the top of my head: Kodos the Executioner.

I understand Gene Roddenberry wanted to keep the show about the common man. And so he limited the number of superior men (genetically anyway). But I disagreed that he had to make the genetically engineered a censured sub-race to do so.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating running blindly into the murky waters of genetic tampering. We need to take these steps slow. Especially when our test subjects are living, sentient beings. When things go wrong we can't just "throw away the batch" and start over.

We also need to be careful to not have everyone jump on the band-wagon and ride off into the most perfect genetically engineered future we can make for ourselves. We still need diversification (IDIC). We don't all want to have "genetically perfect" kids only to find out later that they are all equally susceptible to the same ailment and the entire human race dies out.
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Old August 22 2012, 04:10 PM   #1465
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Here's another fun thing: rewatching the earlier episodes (all 5 seasons) with an eye towards moments that take on a different light when you realize Bashir is genetically enhanced and covering it up (even though the writers and actors didn't know this at the time). I find it works remarkably well. This post will list some of these moments. And there's a lot.

First, in general you can say that Bashir was hiding some of his more advanced abilities (like racketball, tennis, dart throwing, rapid mental calculations) all of his life, of at least since he found out at age 15. But I think that he probably never really held back when working on medical problems. He would never have been OK with people dying just so that he could keep his genetic enhancements secret. I think that his memory skills and hand-eye-coordination, etc, all those skills that made him a great doctor, had been enhanced to a great level certainly, but not to a level beyond possibility for a non-enhanced person. Laypeople understand so little about medicine anyway. Most laypeople see doctors as already amazing and magical. No matter what outrageous things he does (like bringing people back from the dead; mentioned early on in "The Passenger") most people will just think he's just like all other doctors. It's only when he does things to get the attention of other doctors (like graduating at the top of his class would have; or like being the youngest person to be nominated for the Carrington Award in "Prophet Motive") that he needs to worry too much about what he does in medicine. It's the enhanced non-medicine things that he does that cause him more problems.

Remember the short scene at the beginning of "A Man Alone" where Bashir tries his hand at the Altonian brain teaser that Dax had been trying to master for over 140 years? Bashir tries the game (with Dax present) and does horribly. She jokes that he must have "something on his mind" and then leaves, but encourages him to try the game again. As the scene ends we hear Bashir say "computer, reset" but we don't see his next attempt at the game. I think that with Bashir's genetically enhanced and structured mind that this game would actually not be all that difficult for him. Although not shown on screen, I think that when he tried the game again (alone in the room so he doesn't have to worry about what people are seeing) that he easily wins. And we never again see Bashir trying the game. It's too easy for him.

I think there are some retroactive reasons for why Bashir gloats a bit about significant medical events like reviving that dead guy in the beginning of "The Passenger" even though it would seem to draw undue attention to him (and he should be better at reading people and getting along with them):
(1) It really is a pretty impressive thing, and genetically enhanced or not, Bashir is young and wants to get some credit. Maybe a least part of him really wants the acknowledgment of his great deeds. Remember, Julian didn't know of his genetic enhancements until he was 15, plenty of time to develop a healthy arrogance about being better than everyone else. In fact, that's probably why his parents finally told him, so that he would tone down on the gloating and showing off (and tennis playing) so they wouldn't get found out.
(2) Maybe Bashir thinks that he can actually distract people away from the great dead (which might lead people to question his abilities) by gloating a little too much and therefore distracting people by having them think he's a annoying stuck-up know-it-all
Either way, it relies on Bashir being a very good judge of the people he talks with. Can you just imagine what his life is like, constantly having to lie to people and judge how they react to those lies?

I always thought it was weird in the early seasons how he was a bit of a ladies-man with women (like at the beginning of "Q-Less"), but everyone else thought he was a stuck-up kid they didn't want to hang out with, and he was always so clueless when it came to dealing with Garak. I think Bashir, even early on, is much more capable of being tactful in situations and controlling conversations the way he wants them to go. He would need to have honed those skills a little to keep his secret. But he almost purposely acts up a little too much (too annoying, or too proud, or too whimpy) to keep people off-kelter. In early seasons the only people he ever uses his full-blown conversation skills on are the women he dated. He is a young man after all, into sex as much as any other (as far as we get on TV). But I would/could also argue that Bashir is really still trying to find a balance. Still trying to know how much to lie and how much to reveal his true self. Remember, he didn't even know about his own genetic enhancement until he was 15. So his genetic enhancements couldn't really be all that much beyond regular people, or he would/could have been found out earlier. Maybe in these early seasons he really is what he seems, a brilliant young man trying to find a balance between pride in his work and modesty, while only occasionally worrying about getting "found out".

In "Q-Less" we learn that Bashir mistook a preganglionic fiber for a postganglionic nerve during the oral exam phase of his Starfleet Medical finals. Obviously any first year medical student would not likely mistake a preganglionic fiber for a postganglionic nerve. So it's likely that Bashir threw the question on purpose so that he would not be valedictorian. Maybe, like any person in that position, he just did it because he was nervous about being valedictorian and wanted to let someone else take the title. But maybe he threw the question on purpose because he thought the valedictorian title might lead to too much scrutiny. And he only needed the salutatorian title to get him the position he wanted out on the frontier. In fact, maybe he wanted to work out on the frontier because it kept him away from other doctors who might question his brilliance, something the "simple locals" wouldn't do as much (as stated in "Emissary"). Although some locals did see his brillance, like in "Babel", when Surmak Ren noted his great work.

In "The Passenger", maybe the only reason Rao Vantika's technique for imprinting his conscience onto a human brain was because it was Bashir's genetically engineered brain that already had a great sense of compartmentalization. And Rao Vantika noted that he really liked his "new body" when he was inside Bashir. Maybe he was noting Bashir's genetically enhanced abilities (without even really knowing that they were enhanced because he'd never been in a normal human body).

In "Move Along Home", I wonder what Bashir was actually going screaming in the game when Sisko, Kira, and Dax found him. Maybe his genetic enhancements allowed him to determine that he was actually in an artificial construct (which he couldn't share with his shipmates because he couldn't explain how he knew) and he was trying a technique to get himself out of the mental construct. He does say that he was "trying to wake himself up", which sounds like a ridiculous young man to the others, but may have been as truthful as he could let on at the time.

In "Armageddon Game", I wonder just how much Bashir actually knows about the subspace transceiver that he's not letting on the O'Brien. Ultimately it doesn't matter, however, because it's not repairable anyway.

Probably the Julian Bashir seen in all the mirror universe episodes was not genetically enhanced. I'm sure his parents, as slaves of the Alliance, couldn't afford the genetic enhancements that the regular universe parents could. Maybe that's why mirror Bashir seems so much stupider and mad at world. If you want to know how Jules Bashir would have turned out without the enhancements, you need look no further than mirror Bashir.

Perhaps Bashir's enhanced status was part of what enabled him to survive as a prisoner of the Dominion for over a month, as revealed in "In Purgatory's Shadow" and "By Inferno's Light".

Most of the episode "Distant Voices" plays out in Bashir's genetically enhanced mind. Perhaps the only reason Bashir was able to defeat Altovar's attack was because Bashir was enhanced. (I don't think a human NOT genetically enhanced could've or would've survived that Lethean's telepathic attack.) It's interesting how even though Altovar is inside Bashir's mind, he still doesn't fully understand Bashir's status as a genetically enhanced man in hiding. (This is similar to when Rao Vantika was inside Bashir's head in "The Passenger".) Altovar confronts Bashir about his past failures – the way he quit tennis to become a doctor because his parents would not approve, the way he intentionally missed a question so he would be second rather than first in his class because of the pressure. What was it Bashir's parents didn't approve about tennis? Did they not want Julian to squander the gifts that they presumably paid good hard-earned curency for? Or were they worried that the life of a super-star tennis play would make it more likely that his genetically engineered status would be found out? And, as has been previously discussed, Bashir probably threw that fiber/nerve question not just to avoid the pressure of being valedictorian, but the pressure of possibly be found out as enhanced (and therefore a bit of a cheat).

There was a little clue in the episode "HomeFront" about Bashir's past. Odo offered to check on Bashir's family on Earth and Bashir quickly put the idea to rest. Bashir didn't want to associate with his parents.

There's some interesting scenes in "Rivals" if you know Bashir's actual racketball skills are much higher than he normally let's on. First, Bashir has to pretend to be "normal" fit young guy, who can easily beat the older O'Brien, and then naturally gloat about it. Then, later in the episode, as the "luck game" starts acting on him, he finds himself loosing the game, even when he tries. How can this be? he may be asking himself; I'm much better than O'Brien, heck, I'm even much better than O'Brien thinks I am. Because I normally have to bring down my game so that no one recognizes my enhanced abilities.

But the scene I find the most interesting and revealing about genetically-enhanced Bashir in "Rivals" is not the beginning, when Bashir is winning, nor the end, when he's loosing because of the "luck game", it's in the middle, when Bashir "throws" the match to O'Brien because he feels bad for him. Remember, genetically enhanced Bashir is always "taking it easy" on those people he plays games with. He has to in order to not let on to people the fact that he has exceptional genetically engineered abilities. And he has also gotten very good at doing so in such a way that it appears natural, not like he's trying to loose. It has to appear as if he's trying to win, even though he's not really doing his genetically-engineered best. In fact, he often chooses to throw in some gloating and pride, maybe because he's just young and feels like gloating, but maybe because he's trying to throw others off the scent of thinking he's actually capable of doing even more than he's showing (and gloating about). But in the match he's trying to "throw" to O'Brien there is another interesting dynamic. He now has to pretend to have even less skill than he normally shows, which is already less than his real skill level. And you know that Bashir could have done so in a convincing way. He's had a lot of practice at throwing games in a convincing way. (Unless he has gotten SO use to his new "normal" level that this further-reduced level feels weird to him.) Yet in the episode, Bashir acts so obvious when he "throws" the game with O'Brien. When he's throwing a game, which he's probably done many times, he does so in a very obvious way. Was this just because he really didn't want to bring his game down so far? Or was he acting so poorly so that others couldn't possibly question that his normal level of play wasn't also faked? I'm not arguing one way or the other. I just think it's an interesting question to think about.

The absolute most interesting episode to rewatch knowing about Bashir's genetic enhancements, in my opinion, is "Our Man Bashir". Bashir, who leaves a real life as a multi-faceted man with secrets that he hides from everyone, wishes to escape into a place where he can really be himself and use his abilities to their fullest potential. Secret agent man program seems perfect. Interacting with a lot of different people using different personas (which allows him to hone his conversational skills, which are really a lot better than he lets on), high-speed mental calculations (with the right story), card counting, sharpshooting using his high hand-eye-coordination. So he sets up some free time to be with himself. Sets the program difficulty up really high so it's challenging. (Most people would set the program so that they win the card game without trying, but Bashir had it set up so that he had to card count a 5 deck set to do it, just to challenge himself, etc.) Then Garak shows up and Bashir has a dilemma. No problem, he thinks, I just get rid of Garak or secretly lower the difficulty level so that he doesn't see me doing these amazing things and getting too suspicious. But then the transporter/computer problems takes both of those choices away from him. So he's stuck having to continue with the program set at a risky high difficulty level to save his friends' lives, all why hiding his abilities from Garak . . . all while keeping Garak off-balance enough to not notice. It plays out really well. And Bashir comes across even more impressive when you view the episode this way. Especially at the end, when Julian shoots at Garak and it seems like Bashir was willing to shoot him, but the bullet didn't hit. In hindsight its obvious he intentionally missed as a warning and played it off like he meant to actually hit Garak (which, given his enhanced abilities, would have been easy).
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Old August 22 2012, 04:16 PM   #1466
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Remember the genetic engineering that was happening on Darwin Station in the TNG episode “Unnatural Selection”?* Maybe that was actual legal scientific research into genetic engineering.* Remember, just because it’s illegal for the average citizen in the Federation to perform eugenics, that does not mean that government-sanctioned scientists with Starfleet oversight couldn’t be allowed to experiment in a controlled location.* (I wonder whatever happen to those genetically engineered kids.)
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Old August 22 2012, 04:23 PM   #1467
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

^^ This. All of it. (Well, less so the Darwin Station stuff, but everything before it.) Absolutely and entirely.

This is what I love about the TrekBBS: conversing with people who think about this stuff as much as I do (and clearly enjoy doing so, as well).
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Old August 23 2012, 04:49 AM   #1468
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

datalogan wrote:
But I think that he probably never really held back when working on medical problems. He would never have been OK with people dying just so that he could keep his genetic enhancements secret.
I agree with this. I also think that's why he became a doctor. He said his parents had a good doctor do his genetic engineering, but others weren't so lucky. That makes me think of the "rejects" in Statistical Probabilities. He knew that could have easily been him, and he wanted to be the doctor that saved people. It would have been interesting to see him do some intergalactic "doctors without borders" work, where every person/being he saved was one less person that could be harmed by a hack. That would have been good. I honestly only see his revelation as a good thing for the character.

I read somewhere once that Siddig said that he didn't like that twist in his storyline. I wonder why? It really helped his character, at least to me it did. The section 31 stuff was just great. Sisko actually had him being a spy with that one. No holosuite required.
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Old August 23 2012, 05:00 AM   #1469
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I just don't think he liked how it was suddenly sprung on him out of the blue, nor how they tried to turn Bashir into a human computer.
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Old August 23 2012, 05:02 AM   #1470
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Oh. I never thought of him as a human computer, but I guess for the actor it might have seemed that way. He didn't seem to play the character too differently afterward, so I wouldn't have though it would make much of a difference. Okay.
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