Farscape or Babylon 5?

[Trubinator]

kirk55555 wrote:

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I just disliked it. I mean, in the end

Aliens made him think he was on earth. Stuff like that has been done a lot, and I knew when i saw the wormhole that it was all a dream or something. Once on earth, the government was evil in its treatment towards him and aliens. Big shock. To me it felt like a waste of 40+ minutes. It accomplished nothing, and didn't advance the characters in any way. I didn't hate it, I just didn't care, which is why I fast forwarded through a good chunk of it.

Wow, I'm shocked as well. That episode is definitely one of the best of the season and plays a crucial role in the arc of the show.

[Lindley]

Well, let's ease up on him. It's not like you could tell what the arc is purely from "A Human Reaction". It's how those events seem in retrospect that's important.

kirk55555 wrote:

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As long as they don't do another episode about Chrichton arriving at a fake earth, I think I'll be fine.

You know they had to do it at least once. It's a requirement of the "can't get home" genre. Suffice it to say that they don't go to that well very often, and they never do it in so simplistic a manner again.

[RoJoHen]

kirk55555 wrote:

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As long as they don't do another episode about Chrichton arriving at a fake earth, I think I'll be fine.

To be fair, next time he's way more skeptical.

[Skywalker]

Guys, let him make whatever assumptions he wants. How many of us knew exactly where the show was headed the first time we watched it?

[HighteeHeller]

I remember the first time watching it being bothered with the direction i thought it was going, or the behaviors of certain characters, until realizing that it all made sense in the end.

The beginning of season 2 and Chrichtons increasingly odd behavior put me on edge, made me frustrated. I couldn't for the life of me understand why he was turning into such a jackass. I remember not wanting to watch the show because of it. But as we all know, there was a valid reason for it, and the events in A Human Reaction was the first step down that road.

[kirk55555]

A Bugs Life (Farscape) - This was an enjoyable episode. I liked the idea of a sentient virus, although they must be pretty rare, otherwise most of the galaxy would be screwed up. I think they were a bit too hard on Rygel for opening it, though. There was no way that chest wasn't going to be opened, and of course it was going to be Rygel or female Jar Jar who did it.

Believers (Babylon 5) - Ugh. Its hard to figure out what to say about this episode. It wasn't bad. In fact, for the type of story it is, it was done well. I think what really gets to me is that I can see both sides of the issue. I would still say I side with the doctor, but I get Sinclair's position, too. I'm not a fan of stories based off religion in Sci-Fi shows (I mean ones like this, stuff like the evil Ori in SG-1 is fine), but like i said this one was done well. The parts of the stpory with Ivanova in a fighter were pretty pointless, though.

Survivors (B5) - This was a good episode. I like that it gives more info about Garibaldi's past. I honestly didn't know who set him up at first. I thought it might be the woman. Then, when they mentioned the organization who doesn't like aliens, and then it made sense that they would be the ones to set him up. I do wonder why Ivanova was so reluctant to stop the countdown near the end of the episode. She seemed to believe that Garibaldi was innocent, yet she kept the count going until the last second. Maybe she just likes to keep things dramatic

By any Means Necessary (B5)- this was a very good episode. It makes me wonder why political corruption is still around after hundreds of years. I mean, I don't expect the government to be perfect, but you would hope by that time that they'd start electing people who did things more because it was right then because it would help/hurt them politically. Treating workers like dirt, to the point they are legitimately in danger and way too overworked because the government is too cheap, should not be happening that far in the future. Heck, I don't think that even really happens in 2012, at least not as often as it seems to happen in B5's future. I guess that means the government gets worse in the future. I did like that the senator seemed to show that he wasn't completely heartless, his appearances in other episodes made him seem like the generic corrupt/uncaring senator, which he still might be, but atleast he showed he is somewhat human. The Londo/G'Kar parts were great, like they always are.

Signs and Portents (B5)- This was a good episode. I liked that Sinclair's past was brought up again. I'm wondering whats up with the guy asking the ambassadors questions, I bet thats brought up again eventually. I liked the Londo parts, although the Eye looks like something that could be created by a television prop department for less than $10 The woman who could predict the future was kind of pointless, "Babylon 5 could be destroyed, unless it doesn't get destroyed".

[Reverend]

Believers (Babylon 5) - Ugh. Its hard to figure out what to say about this episode. It wasn't bad. In fact, for the type of story it is, it was done well. I think what really gets to me is that I can see both sides of the issue. I would still say I side with the doctor, but I get Sinclair's position, too. I'm not a fan of stories based off religion in Sci-Fi shows (I mean ones like this, stuff like the evil Ori in SG-1 is fine), but like i said this one was done well. The parts of the stpory with Ivanova in a fighter were pretty pointless, though.

IIRC that whole bit with Ivanova was inserted when they realised the episode was running short (presumably at the script stage.) As for the rest of it, I'm pretty sure the whole point of the episode was that there is no clearly defined right and wrong to this kind of situation. It's something you'll see more of, but B5 as a show tends towards asking questions rather than offering answers when it comes to moral dilemmas.

By any Means Necessary (B5)- this was a very good episode. It makes me wonder why political corruption is still around after hundreds of years. I mean, I don't expect the government to be perfect, but you would hope by that time that they'd start electing people who did things more because it was right then because it would help/hurt them politically. Treating workers like dirt, to the point they are legitimately in danger and way too overworked because the government is too cheap, should not be happening that far in the future. Heck, I don't think that even really happens in 2012, at least not as often as it seems to happen in B5's future. I guess that means the government gets worse in the future. I did like that the senator seemed to show that he wasn't completely heartless, his appearances in other episodes made him seem like the generic corrupt/uncaring senator, which he still might be, but atleast he showed he is somewhat human. The Londo/G'Kar parts were great, like they always are.

Hundreds? Try thousands. You think Rome, Egypt or the Empire of China wasn't full of corrupt bureaucrats? It's part of human nature and is in no danger of going away anytime soon. Oh and disregarding worker safety in the name of profit happens all the time all over the world. Hell, in just the last few days 35 South African miners got gunned down while on strike!

As for senator Hidoshi, I think he shows up so often because he's the main liaison between B5 & the senate oversight committe back at earthdome. I'm pretty sure you don't see him again after the first season though. I think there's a throwaway line somewhere down the road mentioning that he'd retired. I never saw him as corrupt so much as just a mouthpiece for whatever direction the senate was going at any given time.

Signs and Portents (B5)- This was a good episode. I liked that Sinclair's past was brought up again. I'm wondering whats up with the guy asking the ambassadors questions, I bet thats brought up again eventually.

What, that guy? Nah!

I liked the Londo parts, although the Eye looks like something that could be created by a television prop department for less than $10 The woman who could predict the future was kind of pointless, "Babylon 5 could be destroyed, unless it doesn't get destroyed".

I think even JMS makes fun of that prop in the commentary (don't listen to any of them BTW, spoilers abound!) To be fair though. just because something is old and symbolically important, doesn't mean it's well designed. If the ancient Centauri were anything like their descendants then I can see them treasuring a useless, gaudy looking bauble like that.

[RandyS]

kirk55555 wrote:

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Believers (Babylon 5) - Ugh. Its hard to figure out what to say about this episode. It wasn't bad. In fact, for the type of story it is, it was done well. I think what really gets to me is that I can see both sides of the issue. I would still say I side with the doctor, but I get Sinclair's position, too. I'm not a fan of stories based off religion in Sci-Fi shows (I mean ones like this, stuff like the evil Ori in SG-1 is fine), but like i said this one was done well. The parts of the stpory with Ivanova in a fighter were pretty pointless, though.

Ah, good, you finally saw it. I know exactly what to say about this episode. I HATED it. And, considering how much I love Babylon 5, that's saying alot.

As for the scenes with Ivanova, I think they were the only things that saved that idiotic script from being a complete write-off.

[kirk55555]

Reverend wrote:

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Hundreds? Try thousands. You think Rome, Egypt or the Empire of China wasn't full of corrupt bureaucrats? It's part of human nature and is in no danger of going away anytime soon. Oh and disregarding worker safety in the name of profit happens all the time all over the world. Hell, in just the last few days 35 South African miners got gunned down while on strike!

I know it happens, but I was comparing it more to the USA's current situation. I assume when Earth goes into space and becomes some kind of power that whatever government is formed will be run a bit better than the current (2012)governments of countries like South Africa, China, Egypt, etc, and be more like the USA, UK, or other modern democracies, where it has problems but doesn't treat its people like they have no rights. The fact that its atleast some kind of democracy (and I'm assuming its one global government, although they really haven't said) is what gives me that assumption. I know there will be corruption, but what was happening with the dock workers was just bad (and, it turns out public opinion did make the Senate accept Sinclair's position, so it is similar to what we have today). I guess I just assumed it would be a little better, not a bit worse than what we have now.

[Lindley]

As you continue with B5, it will become obvious that it's a show about trying to be better than we are; not a show in which are are already better.

[Sindatur]

kirk55555 wrote:

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I know it happens, but I was comparing it more to the USA's current situation. I assume when Earth goes into space and becomes some kind of power that whatever government is formed will be run a bit better than the current (2012)governments of countries like South Africa, China, Egypt, etc, and be more like the USA, UK, or other modern democracies, where it has problems but doesn't treat its people like they have no rights. The fact that its atleast some kind of democracy (and I'm assuming its one global government, although they really haven't said) is what gives me that assumption. I know there will be corruption, but what was happening with the dock workers was just bad (and, it turns out public opinion did make the Senate accept Sinclair's position, so it is similar to what we have today). I guess I just assumed it would be a little better, not a bit worse than what we have now.

I don't think we both have the same view of the Political Landscape in the USA. Our Two party system, has both Parties "owned" by the same interests, and having the same goals, but, telling the folks who vote for them a different spin on what/who gets voted in. I can easily see Today's Political Climate, in a "Worse than 911 Threat/retaliation Mode" being every bit as sleazy as shown on "Worst stereotype portrayals" in SciFi.

[Reverend]

kirk55555 wrote:

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I know it happens, but I was comparing it more to the USA's current situation. I assume when Earth goes into space and becomes some kind of power that whatever government is formed will be run a bit better than the current (2012)governments of countries like South Africa, China, Egypt, etc, and be more like the USA, UK, or other modern democracies, where it has problems but doesn't treat its people like they have no rights. The fact that its atleast some kind of democracy (and I'm assuming its one global government, although they really haven't said) is what gives me that assumption. I know there will be corruption, but what was happening with the dock workers was just bad (and, it turns out public opinion did make the Senate accept Sinclair's position, so it is similar to what we have today). I guess I just assumed it would be a little better, not a bit worse than what we have now.

Like I said, it's neither. This is how it's always been (more or less) and it ain't about to change without something *drastic* to alter the basic psyche of the whole species. Oh and if you think democracy is a good way to protect against corruption, think again!

As for how the Earth Alliance works, it's a "Multi-Tiered Democratic Republic." And what that means is that sovereign states still exist, though a number of them appear to have coalesced into larger super states (Russian Consortium, North American State, United Islamic Nations, Central African Bloc etc.) and most (but not all) of them are members of the Earth Alliance. Each member state is basically free to run their countries how they see fit (though one assumes certain conventions must be adhered to.) Being part of the Alliance means that all members contribute funds to support Earthgov and by extension, the Earthforce military which is responsible for planetary security and overseeing the colonies. In return each nation gets a seat in the Earth Senate, all of which are based at a huge facility besides Lake Geneva in Switzerland imaginatively called Earthdome.

There are still wars between the nation states and while it's never explored in any detail mention is made of the "Liberation of the African Bloc" and a civil conflict within the Eastern Bloc called the War of the Shining Star. Both of which took place a number of decades before when B5 is set, but also well after the founding of the Earth Alliance and first contact with the Centauri.

It's also worth mentioning that the mega-corporations have very close ties within EarthGov and even Earthforce and in some ways have more power than a lot of the Earth nation states. Indeed, some Earth colonies are basically owned by one megacorp or another. You'll hear about a few of them at some point down the line.

[MacLeod]

kirk55555 wrote:

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By any Means Necessary (B5)- this was a very good episode. It makes me wonder why political corruption is still around after hundreds of years. I mean, I don't expect the government to be perfect, but you would hope by that time that they'd start electing people who did things more because it was right then because it would help/hurt them politically.

Can't say anything without spoiling, but had to laugh when I read that.

[kirk55555]

Nerve (Farscape) - I'm starting to wonder why the writers seemed to have just given up for the last fourth of the season. There have been some good episodes, like Through the Looking Glass and A Bugs life, but for the most part The Flax was the end of the show having pretty consistant good episodes, now its very hit or miss. This episode has Aeryn needing a tissue sample from the hidden Peacekeeper based mentioned last episode to fix a probably fatal injury, that also happened last episode. Thats fine, I mean stuff like that has been done a lot but it can be done well. John decides to sneak on pretending to be an officer. I didn't think it would work for too long (and I was right) but it makes sense. Then, he agrees to take female Jar Jar with him, and I lost all hope for the episode.

Its a good thing I lost all expectations that this would be a good episode, because it was mediocre. To be fair, while she really annoyed me, Chiana wasn't the reason it wasn't very good. The part that pretty much ruined the episode was the S&M man....I mean "Scorpius". This guy wear's a bizarre mask, black clothes that look like leather, and enjoys inflicting pain, hence my name for him (his female minion is just as bad, although she doesn't have a mask, and atleast she doesn't talk). He tortures John in some "futuristic" torture chair. So, he's basically Durka with a fancy chair and stupid clothes. I think he makes more appearances, which really sucks. I thought Crais was a generic villain with generic motivation, then Scorpius came along. A villain wearing really stupid clothes that likes to inflict pain, in this case with a special device. Criochton manages to get help by the blonde peacekeeper from an earlier episode, and Jar Jar escapes with what Aeryn needs, leaving John to be tortured by Scorpius. A predictable ending, and also the first of a two parter

[RoJoHen]

Your reviews of Farscape boggle my mind. If you didn't like "Nerve," you might as well just stop. This is the point of the show where most of us finally fell in love with it after struggling through the mediocrity of early Season 1.

I don't even know how to react to you anymore.

And no, he not just a badly dressed villain who likes to inflict pain. Quite the contrary. His suit actually serves a purpose, as does the Aurora Chair. He is anything but a generic villain.

I feel like you will fail to enjoy this show simply because you get too hung up on your first impressions.