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Old August 11 2012, 01:12 PM   #211
Alpha Flyer
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Re: My first voyage with Voyager

Still new to BBS. Only really started posting to the site a couple of days ago and came across some pretty snarky folks; last one spoiled a good discussion by categorically informing me that "Voyager was stupid" (as if that refuted the point I had made). Life is too short to engage in uncivilized discourse, so I thought I'd come here and be among friends of the series, before giving up on that whole forum thing entirely ...

Anyway, I found this thread and am enjoying going through the first-time experience with you, Qutluch. I write fan fiction and recently have been having exchanges with a reader who was doing the same thing (apparently inspired, I'm happy to say, by a couple of my episode-based vignette type pieces). Your and her comments remind me of when I discovered the series -- a mere three years ago, when I bought all 7 seasons on DVD after watching all of Next Gen with my daughter and looking for something else.

I have found Voyager to be the best of all the series in terms of character development and interaction -- the reason it is the most popular with fan fiction writers, I believe. There are some dud episodes, to be sure, and some glaring inconsistencies in the writing, but overall it works. (And the gaps give us FF authors stuff to work with ...)

As for Prime Directive issues ... well, let's just say consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds. It gets dealt with in rather interesting (and at times aggravating) ways in later seasons -- just as it does in all the other series.

Look forward to what you have to say when you get to Threshold and Investigations (including the three episodes leading up to it), which are very interesting for Tom Paris' character arc.

I am rather jealous that all this still lies before you ...

AF
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Old August 11 2012, 11:17 PM   #212
BirdInJetstream
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Re: My first voyage with Voyager

Alpha Flyer wrote: View Post
Still new to BBS. Only really started posting to the site a couple of days ago and came across some pretty snarky folks; last one spoiled a good discussion by categorically informing me that "Voyager was stupid" (as if that refuted the point I had made). Life is too short to engage in uncivilized discourse, so I thought I'd come here and be among friends of the series, before giving up on that whole forum thing entirely ...

Anyway, I found this thread and am enjoying going through the first-time experience with you, Qutluch. I write fan fiction and recently have been having exchanges with a reader who was doing the same thing (apparently inspired, I'm happy to say, by a couple of my episode-based vignette type pieces). Your and her comments remind me of when I discovered the series -- a mere three years ago, when I bought all 7 seasons on DVD after watching all of Next Gen with my daughter and looking for something else.

I have found Voyager to be the best of all the series in terms of character development and interaction -- the reason it is the most popular with fan fiction writers, I believe. There are some dud episodes, to be sure, and some glaring inconsistencies in the writing, but overall it works. (And the gaps give us FF authors stuff to work with ...)

As for Prime Directive issues ... well, let's just say consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds. It gets dealt with in rather interesting (and at times aggravating) ways in later seasons -- just as it does in all the other series.

Look forward to what you have to say when you get to Threshold and Investigations (including the three episodes leading up to it), which are very interesting for Tom Paris' character arc.

I am rather jealous that all this still lies before you ...

AF



Welcome to the BBS, if I might say so - I am very new to this myself. I am currently rewatching the show, which is great fun. Haven't seen it since it first aired on tv.

Its nice that you like Paris as well. I saw that his character is quite debated in the forum. IMO his character development was much more interesting than Chakotay's. Paris was allowed to pull more stunts and do mistakes which makes him more human and authentic.

I checked out your fanfiction link and just read the story about Mickey the yellow Leola root rodent. I love it! Wonderful humour - had me laughing couple of times!
Thanks a lot.
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Old August 12 2012, 05:18 AM   #213
Qutluch
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Re: My first voyage with Voyager

[QUOTE=BirdInJetstream;6789416]
Alpha Flyer wrote: View Post
Its nice that you like Paris as well. I saw that his character is quite debated in the forum. IMO his character development was much more interesting than Chakotay's. Paris was allowed to pull more stunts and do mistakes which makes him more human and authentic.

I checked out your fanfiction link and just read the story about Mickey the yellow Leola root rodent. I love it! Wonderful humour - had me laughing couple of times!
Thanks a lot.
I like it that Paris is so cocky, and his hollodeck scene is awesome!!
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Old August 12 2012, 05:25 AM   #214
Qutluch
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Re: My first voyage with Voyager

I just went to my first Trek Convention in Las Vegas today. WOW!!! I had so much fun! I had my picture taken with Aron Eisenberg and I had Brett Spiner sign my five-foot tall poster of Data! The TNG session was the best! I have a new found respect for Marina Sirtis. She was absolutely hysterical and Spiner does an awesome Picard impression. The costumes were awesome! I have decided that I am definitely dressing up next year. I am leaning toward a Klingon, but I am open to suggestions. Can anyone suggest a good costume website?
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Old August 12 2012, 05:54 AM   #215
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Re: My first voyage with Voyager

Qutluch wrote: View Post
I just went to my first Trek Convention in Las Vegas today. WOW!!! I had so much fun! I had my picture taken with Aron Eisenberg and I had Brett Spiner sign my five-foot tall poster of Data! The TNG session was the best! I have a new found respect for Marina Sirtis. She was absolutely hysterical and Spiner does an awesome Picard impression. The costumes were awesome! I have decided that I am definitely dressing up next year. I am leaning toward a Klingon, but I am open to suggestions. Can anyone suggest a good costume website?
This is so cool. SO COOL. It's wonderful!! I'm super happy for you
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Old August 12 2012, 07:58 AM   #216
R. Star
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Re: My first voyage with Voyager

Qutluch wrote: View Post
I just went to my first Trek Convention in Las Vegas today. WOW!!! I had so much fun! I had my picture taken with Aron Eisenberg and I had Brett Spiner sign my five-foot tall poster of Data! The TNG session was the best! I have a new found respect for Marina Sirtis. She was absolutely hysterical and Spiner does an awesome Picard impression. The costumes were awesome! I have decided that I am definitely dressing up next year. I am leaning toward a Klingon, but I am open to suggestions. Can anyone suggest a good costume website?
Well I'm jealous! Have fun over there! I'll make one, someday.
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Old August 12 2012, 02:44 PM   #217
lurok
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Re: My first voyage with Voyager

Qutluch wrote: View Post
I have a new found respect for Marina Sirtis. She was absolutely hysterical ...
I think she's a much much better comedienne than dramatic actor and wish she'd do more comedy. Could say the same for Frakes too.
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Old August 12 2012, 04:13 PM   #218
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Re: My first voyage with Voyager

I met Sirtis at the Ottawa Comicon and yes, she was hilarious in her panel and very kind and friendly in the autograph queue (my 14-year-old was with me, and she responded very nicely to that star-struck young thing). A friend of mine had bound all of my fan fiction output into a book, which I got both her and John de Lancie to autograph, and she wasn't at all freaked out by the utter geekishness of it ... De Lancie is also wonderfully funny and interesting to listen to.
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Old August 12 2012, 10:06 PM   #219
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Re: My first voyage with Voyager

The convention was great, and Sirtis would do awesome in a comedic role. She had me rolling with laughter!
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Old August 13 2012, 11:53 AM   #220
Mareika
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Re: My first voyage with Voyager

Qutluch wrote: View Post
I just went to my first Trek Convention in Las Vegas today. WOW!!! I had so much fun! I had my picture taken with Aron Eisenberg and I had Brett Spiner sign my five-foot tall poster of Data! The TNG session was the best! I have a new found respect for Marina Sirtis. She was absolutely hysterical and Spiner does an awesome Picard impression. The costumes were awesome! I have decided that I am definitely dressing up next year. I am leaning toward a Klingon, but I am open to suggestions. Can anyone suggest a good costume website?
Did you go to the Voyager session?
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Old August 13 2012, 03:25 PM   #221
Qutluch
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Re: My first voyage with Voyager

Alpha Flyer wrote: View Post
Still new to BBS. Only really started posting to the site a couple of days ago and came across some pretty snarky folks; last one spoiled a good discussion by categorically informing me that "Voyager was stupid" (as if that refuted the point I had made). Life is too short to engage in uncivilized discourse, so I thought I'd come here and be among friends of the series, before giving up on that whole forum thing entirely ...

Anyway, I found this thread and am enjoying going through the first-time experience with you, Qutluch. I write fan fiction and recently have been having exchanges with a reader who was doing the same thing (apparently inspired, I'm happy to say, by a couple of my episode-based vignette type pieces). Your and her comments remind me of when I discovered the series -- a mere three years ago, when I bought all 7 seasons on DVD after watching all of Next Gen with my daughter and looking for something else.

I have found Voyager to be the best of all the series in terms of character development and interaction -- the reason it is the most popular with fan fiction writers, I believe. There are some dud episodes, to be sure, and some glaring inconsistencies in the writing, but overall it works. (And the gaps give us FF authors stuff to work with ...)

As for Prime Directive issues ... well, let's just say consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds. It gets dealt with in rather interesting (and at times aggravating) ways in later seasons -- just as it does in all the other series.

Look forward to what you have to say when you get to Threshold and Investigations (including the three episodes leading up to it), which are very interesting for Tom Paris' character arc.

I am rather jealous that all this still lies before you ...

AF
Welcome to BBS. It is a so much fun to have a spot to discuss each episode!!
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Old August 13 2012, 03:26 PM   #222
Qutluch
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Re: My first voyage with Voyager

Mareika wrote: View Post
Qutluch wrote: View Post
I just went to my first Trek Convention in Las Vegas today. WOW!!! I had so much fun! I had my picture taken with Aron Eisenberg and I had Brett Spiner sign my five-foot tall poster of Data! The TNG session was the best! I have a new found respect for Marina Sirtis. She was absolutely hysterical and Spiner does an awesome Picard impression. The costumes were awesome! I have decided that I am definitely dressing up next year. I am leaning toward a Klingon, but I am open to suggestions. Can anyone suggest a good costume website?
Did you go to the Voyager session?
Only part of it; when my husband felt that they were going to start revealing too much we headed out. Even though I wasn't in there long, it was pretty cool to get a look at the actors. Paris kind of reminded me of Drew Carey...
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Old August 15 2012, 03:25 PM   #223
Qutluch
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Re: My first voyage with Voyager

Alliances

That was a fun opener: death, destruction, danger…Kazon. The Kazon attack again and a crew member died. Chakotay tells Janeway that they have to relax on Star Fleet rules and regulations and implement more Marquis-like tactics if they are going to avoid being destroyed by the Kazon.

After the memorial service a crew member goes to Janeway and argues that they should just give the Kazon a replicator and the items they want. That was just plain dumb, and he just pissed Janeway off. Then while she was still fuming Chakotay proposed that she make a pact with one of the Kazon’s other enemies in an attempt to lessen their power against them. Janeway, in my opinion, a smart move, went to Tuvok to get his opinion. Tuvok also agreed that Chakotay’s position was viable. He made a good point that the alliance would only be temporary until they were out of Kazon space. Luckily, Neelix had a friend in one of the Kazon fractions that he could speak with and Janeway decided to try and contact Seska for an alliance. I felt like that was a bad idea since Seska had already back-stabbed the Voyager crew already. She is not trust-worthy and I feel that it was out-of-character for Janeway to go to her without much thought when they had not tried Neelix’s contact yet.

Neelix’s encounter did not go so well. He was thrown into jail in a cave with many others. Eventually, the group overthrew their jail members took some ships and met up with the Voyager. The other inhabitants of the jail, the Trabe, explained their back history and Janeway suggested that their convoy and the Voyager team up together while they travel. Back on the ship, B’Elanna verbally lambastes a crew member, Hogan, who began to question Janeway’s competency. Unfortunately, Hogan secretly called Seska’s ship and offered to aid them himself.

Seska talks Culluh into uniting the Kazon fractions in order to gain power and take over the Voyager. We also find out that Seska and Culluh are having a baby! While in a meeting with the Kazon the Trabe tried to assassinate the Kazon leadership. Janeway figured out what was occurring and gave a warning before beaming out. I kind of feel like Janeway should have had the Kazon beamed out to in order to show that she was not behind the attack. I realize that the whole episode was done so Janeway could give her “we need rules and regulations” speech at the end, but I feel that many parts of the episode were badly executed. I think that they made a mistake with contacting Seska and another mistake when they did not beam the Kazon out of the meeting or at least blow up the attacking ship rather than firing a few shots at it.

Least favorite part: When Janeway so quickly and willingly met with Seska without even considering if she could be trusted.
Favorite part: Tuvok: “A visionary named Spock…”
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Old August 15 2012, 04:20 PM   #224
BirdInJetstream
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Re: My first voyage with Voyager

Qutluch wrote: View Post
Alliances

After the memorial service a crew member goes to Janeway and argues that they should just give the Kazon a replicator and the items they want. That was just plain dumb, and he just pissed Janeway off. Then while she was still fuming Chakotay proposed that she make a pact with one of the Kazon’s other enemies in an attempt to lessen their power against them. Janeway, in my opinion, a smart move, went to Tuvok to get his opinion. Tuvok also agreed that Chakotay’s position was viable. He made a good point that the alliance would only be temporary until they were out of Kazon space. Luckily, Neelix had a friend in one of the Kazon fractions that he could speak with and Janeway decided to try and contact Seska for an alliance. I felt like that was a bad idea since Seska had already back-stabbed the Voyager crew already. She is not trust-worthy and I feel that it was out-of-character for Janeway to go to her without much thought when they had not tried Neelix’s contact yet.
I felt Janeway was basically forced to consider an alliance with the Kazon and even more so to contact Seska of all people. For me it was a most remarkable thing, that Janeway gave in. I think all the fighting, the casualties, the damages had her nerves on edge. And Seska still had friends on the ship, and probably not only in engineering. I had the feeling that they would have come pretty close to a mutiny if Janeway had proceeded her fight and flight mode. And IMO it was clearly visible how much Janeway detested making contact with the Kazon. She was clearly glad that Culluh blew that first meeting on Voyager. She tried, it didn't work. Good.

All in all I felt that some issues about this episode were indeed constructed to make a point in favour of Janeway's hold on to starfleet regulations. But this is what writers do in order to give the story a certain direction, no?

I liked that story a lot. It summed up a couple of profound issues: Is it wise to forge alliances with less developed (even aggressive) species? If so - how much are you willing to offer in return for ressources, protection and information? Where is the line of the Prime directive, since any alliance is prone to have an impact on the constellation of power in the sector? When becomes the own survival and the possibility to find a way back home more important than the prime directive? How far can you go to make compromises with half of the crew being not even federation members?
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Old August 15 2012, 04:32 PM   #225
R. Star
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Re: My first voyage with Voyager

This episode becomes all the more amusing in reflection to a future season 3 episode.
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