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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old August 6 2012, 12:19 PM   #241
BillJ
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Re: The operational status of NCC 1701-A...?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
My guess is that Kirk handed the Enterprise over to Decker, he commanded the ship on various missions for a year, then brought it back to Earth to begin the refit.

Makes more sense than the the ship just sitting in orbit for a year, cooling it's heels.

How old is Decker suppose to be in TMP? He seems awfully young to already be a captain for at least two-and-a-half years.
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Old August 6 2012, 01:06 PM   #242
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: The operational status of NCC 1701-A...?

He probably just saved the world or something. I hear Starfleet hands out BIG promotions when that happens
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Old August 6 2012, 05:59 PM   #243
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Re: The operational status of NCC 1701-A...?

^ Decker on the other hand seems too old to be a third year academy cadet.

At the time that TMP was released, Stephen Collins had 32 years, Captain Decker could have initially been give captaincy of the Enterprise while still holding the rank Commander. Officers in Starfleet seem to rise through the ranks faster than officers today.

More like the speed we saw during major conflicts like WWII. According to Gene Roddenberry's novelization, losses of starships during that time period were heavy, officers would have come up faster, and received commands earlier.

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Old August 7 2012, 09:24 PM   #244
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Re: The operational status of NCC 1701-A...?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
My guess is that Kirk handed the Enterprise over to Decker, he commanded the ship on various missions for a year, then brought it back to Earth to begin the refit.

Makes more sense than the the ship just sitting in orbit for a year, cooling it's heels.
It's possible that early work on Enterprise's redesign took place during that year. If it had just been a standard refit, Enterprise might have been out of drydock in a couple of months instead of a couple of years.

Shane Johnson's Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise had an interesting idea that Enterprise's refit was originally meant to be a much simpler thing, but then snowballed into a total redesign of the existing vessel both inside and out. Similar things have happened in real life, so it's a plausible theory.
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Old August 15 2012, 06:39 AM   #245
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Re: The operational status of NCC 1701-A...?

I see a lot of perspective about giving Kirk and crew an outdated ship. Problem being they're looking at it from a 2012 perspective and not a 1986 perspective. On screen and TV until that point we've really only seen constitution class, Miranda class, oberth, and Excelsior represented. At that point and time I don't think anyone from 1986 thought a constitution class vessel was anything but one of the best class vessels not in experimental phase and they gave the viewers their ship back.

I also don't think Kirk was viewed as a problem child. Case in point? Who's insignia was adopted after the 5 year mission for all of starfleet? Kirks delta. If Kirk was such a pain and unstable, he would have never been allowed to be the federation rep to the Klingons or be highly revered by his predecessors in the 24th century. Saving the Earth countless times during the 5year mission and during movie era earns you a little respect. Even in the 24th Picard explains Star fleet doesn't want officers who just blindly follows orders. If Kirk only followed his orders, The president would have been assassinated by his own federation, and earth would have been gone.

He was demoted for a reason.. To stay out of an office and keep saving the federation from its own stupidity. Lol
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Old August 15 2012, 08:35 AM   #246
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Re: The operational status of NCC 1701-A...?

Who's insignia was adopted after the 5 year mission for all of starfleet? Kirks delta.
Even back then, the delta was not specific to Kirk, or even to the other captains and crews of the Enterprise. People from other starships and installations wore the symbol in episodes like "Court Martial" and "Tholian Web" and subsequently in TAS, too...

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Old August 15 2012, 11:33 AM   #247
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Re: The operational status of NCC 1701-A...?

The adoption of the 'Enterprise' delta symbol was written into several books including Mr Scotts guide. The problem was the costumers didnt keep it unique to the Enterprise crew by accidentally not changing it when encountering personnel from another ship or installation on occasion. It would have been better to reuse some of the 'ship of the week' insignia as it would be less recognizable.
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Old August 15 2012, 11:56 AM   #248
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Re: The operational status of NCC 1701-A...?

Timo wrote: View Post
Who's insignia was adopted after the 5 year mission for all of starfleet? Kirks delta.
Even back then, the delta was not specific to Kirk, or even to the other captains and crews of the Enterprise. People from other starships and installations wore the symbol in episodes like "Court Martial" and "Tholian Web" and subsequently in TAS, too...

Timo Saloniemi
Disagree. If you look the crew in the tholisportingre sporting a similar insignia but not the same as the Delta. Its been established every ship carried its own insignia. This was a big issue among fans when trek 09 came out.
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Old August 15 2012, 12:15 PM   #249
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Re: The operational status of NCC 1701-A...?

Timo wrote: View Post
Who's insignia was adopted after the 5 year mission for all of starfleet? Kirks delta.
Even back then, the delta was not specific to Kirk, or even to the other captains and crews of the Enterprise. People from other starships and installations wore the symbol in episodes like "Court Martial" and "Tholian Web" and subsequently in TAS, too...

Timo Saloniemi
Disagree. If you look the crew in the tholian web theyre sporting a similar insignia but not the same as the Delta. Its been established every ship carried its own insignia. This was a big issue among fans when trek 09 came out.

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Old August 15 2012, 01:55 PM   #250
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Re: The operational status of NCC 1701-A...?

Disagree. If you look the crew in the tholian web theyre sporting a similar insignia but not the same as the Delta.
Nope, it's the exact same one.

In the ENT episode "In a Mirror, Darkly", a subtly different insignia was introduced, for a subtly different starship Defiant. But the subtle differences put together suggest that this was a subtly different universe altogether...

Its been established every ship carried its own insignia.
The exact opposite has in fact been established, with several ship crews having the arrowhead in TOS and further in TAS. There is no particular reason to believe that every ship would have its own symbology - merely that Starfleet uses a number of symbols, probably to denote specific fleets, each of which contains a number of ships.

Ship-specific symbols were supposedly in use back in the ENT era, when there were few ships around. Even there, though, the only ship symbols we really saw were those of NX-01 and NX-02.

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Old August 15 2012, 02:44 PM   #251
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Re: The operational status of NCC 1701-A...?

Case in point? Who's insignia was adopted after the 5 year mission for all of starfleet? Kirks delta.
You mean George Kirk of the USS Kelvin in the 2230's?

The Starfleet Delta symbol was first seen (in-universe) on the Friendship-1 probe launched by the UESPA in the late 21st century (VOY: "Friendship One")

I like to go with the explanation given in the old Star Fleet Technical Manual that the symbols designated different branches of Starfleet rather than different starships. It seems to fit all the retcons and goofs best of all.
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Old August 15 2012, 09:18 PM   #252
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Re: The operational status of NCC 1701-A...?

Cr031k wrote: View Post

If Kirk was such a pain and unstable, he would have never been allowed to be the federation rep to the Klingons...
Depending how high up the conspiracy went, sending Kirk might have been seen as being akin to tossing a lit match into a firecracker warehouse.
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Old August 16 2012, 09:49 AM   #253
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Re: The operational status of NCC 1701-A...?

It's not as if Kirk was to be a "representative" anyway. He was just sent to escort Gorkon's ship.

The conspirators' intent of course was to get him to fire at the Klingons; some might have hoped to enlist Kirk to their cause, knowing him for a passionate and skilled Klingon hater, while others might have hoped to get rid of the inconvenient public figure.

One has to wonder about Spock's intent, though. It was he who took credit for the decision to send Kirk, both before the events and (in "Unification") after the outcome was clear. Did he really think in terms of "Nixon in China", that is, selling the peace overtures to the suspicious UFP public by using a hardliner as the messenger? Or did he feel the Klingons would be suitably impressed by Kirk and more likely to really start talking peace than if the UFP sent a soft-spoken diplomat? Spock must have realized that Kirk would have a very short time to have any sort of an influence over Gorkon, considering Kirk was just his escort and nothing more. So the second argument sounds a bit hollow... But Spock telling Kirk outright what the game was is also a bit dubious, as our Vulcan hero is a skilled liar and player at this point already.

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Old August 16 2012, 11:23 AM   #254
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Re: The operational status of NCC 1701-A...?

Seeming Spock opened up negotiations and had obviously spoken to Gorkon to me it would have made more sense to send Spock, either as Captain of the Enterprise or temporarily another ship. I doubt Kirk would have been too bothered as he reluctantly took the mission anyway.
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Old August 16 2012, 12:25 PM   #255
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Re: The operational status of NCC 1701-A...?

I can just about buy Spock not realizing that Kirk would become a pawn for hardliners, as the Vulcan would probably think Kirk was already a valuable pawn for them and would not be callously expended.

I could also buy Spock knowing, from his talks with Gorkon, that sending a softer man would not result in a peace treaty. Even if Kirk wasn't the diplomat doing the negotiating, his presence would be a necessity before Gorkon's people agreed to conductive talks.

From the degree of regret Spock expresses in "Unification", though, I'm tempted to speculate that Spock fully expected Kirk to stir up trouble during the short escort mission alredy, and that the only thing that went unexpectedly there was that Kirk got caught. Or perhaps even that wasn't unexpected, considering how Spock had that box of tracer patches so conveniently at hand...

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