"The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

[Dream]

Warped9 wrote:

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^^ No, I just watched TDK the other night. Joker doesn't say Batman has been around for only a year. He actually says that a year ago the mob thought they were untouchable or something to that effect. Remember, too, that all those escaped Arkham inmates also had to be rounded up after BB. Batman might not have been able to devote all his attentions to the mob.

It is strongly implied to be some time around year. Joker couldn't have been running around much longer than that after the end of BB before he caught Batman's attention.

Also realistically, Bruce can't be Batman too long. Doing all that takes it's toll on the human body. It might work in the comics, but not in real life. Remember that Nolan was going for the realistic angle with these movies.

[doubleohfive]

[Set Harth]

Warped9 wrote:

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Seriously, though, that whole eight year absence is rather silly unless the last sighting isn't referring to the events of TDK and Batman remained operative for quite sometime after Dent's death.

Isn't there a scene in TDKR between Gordon and Blake that indicates it is in reference to the events of TDK?

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Set Harth wrote:

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Isn't there a scene in TDKR between Gordon and Blake that indicates it is in reference to the events of TDK?

yes

[Dream]

Set Harth wrote:

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Isn't there a scene in TDKR between Gordon and Blake that indicates it is in reference to the events of TDK?

This was the scene.

Commissioner Gordon: You got something you wanna ask me, Officer Blake?
Blake: It's about that night, this night, eight years ago. The night Dent died, the last confirmed sighting of the Batman. He murders those people, takes down two SWAT teams, breaks Dent's neck and then just...vanishes.

Saying you thought it was silly is one thing, but saying it didn't take place eight years after Dent's death is false.

[JarodRussell]

They talk about the last confirmed sighting of the Batman. I don't think Wayne stopped the same day Dent died. He just carefully avoided police and cameras (what happens when he chases criminals is shown in TDKR: the police completely forgets about the criminals and chase him instead). And then he realized there's nothing much for him to do anymore anyway.

[Set Harth]

I could have done without the aspie-flat-affect-type kid on the bus.

It's like, kid, you're in a Batman movie, show some goddamn emotion for once in your life.

[Trekker4747]

Set Harth wrote:

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I could have done without the aspie-flat-affect-type kid on the bus.

It's like, kid, you're in a Batman movie, show some goddamn emotion for once in your life.

lol whut

[RoJoHen]

Friend of mine just posted this on Facebook. Thought it was funny.

[Locutus of Bored]

Warped9 wrote:

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I'm currently reading The Dark Knight Manual: Tools, Weapons, Vehicles and Documents From The Batcave. Cool book, written in the first person (Bruce Wayne) and there's a reference to the first five years as Batman.

This tells me that Batman operates for a few years before that year he spends going after the upper echelons of organized crime, the year the Joker refers to in TDK. That backs up a reference in TDKR about Bruce's "years" as Batman. The idea seems to be that Bruce was Batman for at least five years from BB to the events of the TDK. Also we don't know how long he operated as an outlaw after the events of TDK. In TDKR it merely makes a reference to eight years since the last confirmed sighting.

Warped9 wrote:

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If you use the time between BB and TDK (2005-2008) then he could have been operative for three years and then maybe another two mostly out of sight. And so the eight year period mentioned in TDKR is still supported by the last confirmed sighting while he really ceased operations only six years before.

The natural assumption one gets from watching The Dark Knight is that it takes place at most several months to a year after Batman Begins, and I've read different production sources that quote either six, nine, or twelve months later. However, there are several pieces of evidence in favor of there being a gap of a few years between BB and TDK.

Evidence in favor of a multi-year gap between BB and TDK:

- In Begins, the license plates have 2005 expiration dates on the registration stickers.


(you can't see the sticker on the truck pic, it's just there to show you what vehicle the license plate came from in the movie)

- In Dark Knight, the license plates and other vehicle documentation say 2008.


(however, that could have just been them using stickers that corresponded to the real world dates the movies were made and released)

- Judge Surrillo's court documents in TDK also stated that the date of the RICO case brought by Dent and Dawes was in July, 2008. I don't have a picture of this, though it's in the Wiki:

According to court documents on Judge Surrillo's desk, Gotham City is located in the fictional US state of Gotham, a homage to New York, New York.

These documents also reveal that the RICO case was held on July 25, 2008, likely placing the film's events between the beginning of July and the end of August 2008, setting the events in the immediate present based on when the film was released.
http://batman.wikia.com/wiki/The_Dark_Knight

- In Begins, a blond haired toddler can be seen through the window of Gordon's home in a high chair being fed by his wife (identified as Barbara Gordon in the credits). By the time of The Dark Knight, the child is much older (the actor playing him was ten years old, though if you stretch you could say the kid in BB was two or three and the one in TDK is five or six):


(the Batman wiki speculates that Barbara Gordon was just babysitting someone else's kid in the scene, though there were two children - a boy and a girl - who correspond with the two Gordon kids in TDK)

Either way, he's suffering from a bad case of Soap Opera Rapid Aging Syndrome because they probably wanted a kid who could be reasonably articulate and it would be even more messed up to have Harvey hold a gun on a toddler.

- A three year gap would be able to more easily explain how Wayne Enterprises changed towers completely, Wayne Manor was rebuilt from scratch with upgrades, and a new Bat Bunker in the city was dug out while repairs and upgrades to the Batcave were made.

Evidence against a multi-year gap between BB and TDK:

- The Joker tells the mob bosses at the summit:

"Let's wind the clocks back a year. These cops and lawyers wouldn't dare cross any of you. I mean, what happened? Did, did your balls drop off?"

The first time the police and DA's office had the guts to start taking down the mob was after Batman chained up Falcone red-handed on top of all the evidence in BB.

- Why does Bruce only realize he needs a more practical and flexible suit three years into his career as Batman?

- Why does it take three years for Batman to finally take the Joker seriously after Gordon asked him to look into it at the end of BB? Months or a year while he's rounding up the Arkham escapees, cleaning up the Narrows, and fighting the mob makes sense, but three years given Gordon's repeated insistence (in BB and TDK after the bank robbery) that Batman go after the Joker seems unlikely.

- Harvey Dent had three years left until reelection in TDK. Assuming a four year election cycle, that would put his initial election one year earlier, right after Begins and would explain why he was familiar with Ramirez being a dirty cop from his recent time in Internal Affairs at GCPD, unless her mother was in the hospital for years and Maroni got to her several years ago (doubtful). Also, Gordon's anti-mob task force (which Dent investigated as a cop) was only set up after the capture of Falcone.

- The events of Batman: Gotham Knight (set between BB and TDK) seem to imply that the Batman is still a relatively recent phenomenon that the police and public are not entirely sure about. Certainly not someone they've been working with or seeing for years. Also, none of these adventures is particular long, so it can easily fit within a year gap.

http://batman.wikia.com/wiki/Batman:_Gotham_Knight

[Locutus of Bored]

Warped9 wrote:

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Bruce doesn't appear in truly physical difficulty at the end of TDK yet in TDKR he looks in pretty rough shape.

Captaindemotion wrote:

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^It's been a while since I watched TDK but yes, I'd also agree that I couldn't quite figure out how or when Bruce was supposed to have been so badly injured as to require the cane.

As far as his extensive injuries go, though, that can easily be explained by what he goes through in Begins and TDK alone. In the span of those two movies he:

- Falls through ice, gets beaten by sticks, gets his arm slashed by a Katana, gets in prison brawl, fights a bunch of ninjas, falls off a mountain before digging in and supporting two grown men with one arm, and carries Ras on his back down the mountain and walks to the nearest city.

- Falls several stories from the GCPD building and crashed into a metal fire escape without the cape to get away from a pursuing Gordon and gets set on fire and exposed to the fear toxin by Crane.

- Fights multiple League of Shadows ninjas, gets a burning wood beam dropped on his body, gets smoke inhalation, gets jumped by a mob in a riot, and gets dragged by the arm from a train.

- Fights several mob henchmen, gets bitten on the torso and arms/legs by rottweilers, gets thrown from a van into a concrete post, falls down three stories and crushes the van.

- Fights several of Lau's henchmen, and gets yanked out of a building by a plane while carrying Lau.

- Fights several of Joker's henchmen, gets kick/stabbed by a boot knife, falls from the penthouse of a skyscraper and crushes a car while taking the brunt of the impact to protect Rachel.

- The Tumbler gets blown up by an RPG with him in it and (aptly) tumbles multiple times, and he falls off the Batpod after being shot at.

- His Lamborghini gets smashed between a small penis substitute giant pickup and an SUV with Reese in it.

- He fights even more of Joker's henchmen, Joker kicks him while he's down and hits him with a metal pole, he gets chewed on by the same Rottweilers again, he fights a SWAT team.

- Gets shot by Harvey Dent and tackles him off a five story building onto steel beams and the ground.

He's got enough adrenaline at the time to shake it off and walk away, but all that crap is going to catch up with him. I'm amazed he can walk at all, much less with a cane, and that's just because he's the goddamn Batman.

[Samurai8472]

RoJoHen wrote:

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Friend of mine just posted this on Facebook. Thought it was funny.

I found it interesting that most of the main cast have starred with Heath in past movies.


-The above picture from "10 things I hate about you" with Joseph Gordon Levitt and Heath

-Anne Hathaway costared with Heath on "Brokeback Mountain"

-Maggie Gyllenhaal's brother was also in "Brokeback Mountain" with Heath. Maggie probably knew Heath before "The Dark Knight" too

And then we have Bale and Oldman who worked with Heath on "The Dark Knight"

There's a video on youtube of Bale choking up at the MTV movie award when footage of Heath came up too.

[doubleohfive]

TV's Frank wrote:

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For me as well!

[doubleohfive]

RoJoHen wrote:

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Friend of mine just posted this on Facebook. Thought it was funny.

I posted this same thing yesterday, but did so behind a spoiler code in case anyone dumb enough to read this thread before seeing the movie wouldn't cry foul.

[Captaindemotion]

Locutus of Bored wrote:

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As far as his extensive injuries go, though, that can easily be explained by what he goes through in Begins and TDK alone. In the span of those two movies he:

- Falls through ice, gets beaten by sticks, gets his arm slashed by a Katana, gets in prison brawl, fights a bunch of ninjas, falls off a mountain before digging in and supporting two grown men with one arm, and carries Ras on his back down the mountain and walks to the nearest city.

- Falls several stories from the GCPD building and crashed into a metal fire escape without the cape to get away from a pursuing Gordon and gets set on fire and exposed to the fear toxin by Crane.

- Fights multiple League of Shadows ninjas, gets a burning wood beam dropped on his body, gets smoke inhalation, gets jumped by a mob in a riot, and gets dragged by the arm from a train.

- Fights several mob henchmen, gets bitten on the torso and arms/legs by rottweilers, gets thrown from a van into a concrete post, falls down three stories and crushes the van.

- Fights several of Lau's henchmen, and gets yanked out of a building by a plane while carrying Lau.

- Fights several of Joker's henchmen, gets kick/stabbed by a boot knife, falls from the penthouse of a skyscraper and crushes a car while taking the brunt of the impact to protect Rachel.

- The Tumbler gets blown up by an RPG with him in it and (aptly) tumbles multiple times, and he falls off the Batpod after being shot at.

- His Lamborghini gets smashed between a small penis substitute giant pickup and an SUV with Reese in it.

- He fights even more of Joker's henchmen, Joker kicks him while he's down and hits him with a metal pole, he gets chewed on by the same Rottweilers again, he fights a SWAT team.

- Gets shot by Harvey Dent and tackles him off a five story building onto steel beams and the ground.

He's got enough adrenaline at the time to shake it off and walk away, but all that crap is going to catch up with him. I'm amazed he can walk at all, much less with a cane, and that's just because he's the goddamn Batman.

That is a very comprehensive list of injuries! Full credit!

I don't have a big problem with him having the cartilage injury by the time of TDKR. I did make the point in another thread that from a dramatic point of view, it may have been silly to have made Bruce/ Batman aged 30 at the start of his career, given that he would thus have missed the best fitness years of his life and would be starting out at a career where many athletes would be retiring (Batman's level of fitness would need to be athletic level and he would be similarly prone to injury).

It's just that at the end of TDK he didn't seem to be in such bad shape and my own interpretation, rightly or wrongly, was that he didn't re-don the Batsuit after the night Dent died. So the cartilage injury seemed a little sudden (not to mention suddenly healed) and unexplained.

Maybe a line from Alfred along the lines of 'X years of constant punishment on your body, throwing yourself off buildings, taking on SWAT teams, being involved in car crashes will do that to you' might have clarified it.