Mass Effect 3

[Jeff O'Connor]

I really don't dislike Leng, but yeah, he was much better in Karpyshyn's last book, Retribution. He didn't do THAT much in it, but it was good setup for once we eventually learned he would be showing up in ME3, except in ME3 he's a one-trick pony for sure.

Amanda Kenson... now, that was a bad character, oi.

[ATimson]

Jeff O'Connor wrote:

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I guess maybe if you aren't planning on replaying the game even half as often as I am, then it makes a difference, but really, meta knowledge on ME3's endgame =/= reasons for Hackett, Aria, or anyone else to convince Shepard that Omega is worth taking a look at earlier on in the game. I know it's an exaggeration, but to me It's almost like saying, "I already bought Season 7, I already know how the Dominion is defeated, why should I buy Season 5?"

I can say that I'm planning on replaying ME3 infinitely less than you will,, so...

(I can see myself maybe replaying ME1, but probably not 2 and 3.)

But I'll still buy the DLC regardless, because I'm OCD and having the incomplete game on my Xbox profile would bug me.

[Skywalker]

Kai Leng was pretty good in Retribution (we'll just pretend that other book he also appeared in never happened ). He was a murderer and a bigot and I hated him, but you're clearly not supposed to be rooting for him.

He should have been introduced earlier in ME3, ideally during the Mars mission. He desperately needed more characterization. And his weak boss battles didn't help, either. "I have to recharge! Cover me!"

[Jeff O'Connor]

I can't imagine not playing ME2 and ME3 after ME1, but while I enjoyed ME1 quite a bit, it was my least favorite, so yeah. Also, I'm really OCD about following an entire story, too, so even if I liked 2 and 3 less, I'd probably play them. Then again, ME1 does end somewhat neatly -- Shepard going off to find a way to stop the Reapers is a marginally OK bookend, I s'pose.

And yeah, Skywalker, that other book totally never happened. I actually contributed to that infamous Google Document a few times and "held the line" with the threads drawing attention to the travesty on BSN, so believe me, I fought the good fight against that horrible sequel. Now THERE'S a Mass Effect product I won't go near again!

I love it when Shepard calls Kai Leng out for how pathetic he really is -- I think THAT'S the reason the dynamic still kinda works for me, because he's really not supposed to be the even-keeled nemesis like Saren was, he just thinks he is. Is that nearly as cool? Nah, but I'm OK with it.

And technically Kai Leng was "introduced" during the Mars mission, if you wanna stretch things quite a bit and say that seeing him standing next to The Illusive Man counts. But, haha, yeah, I know what you mean and I agree. He could have bailed when he recognized that Eva Core was screwed, or something, but maybe temporarily trapped Liara and barked at her over how much he hated asari. You know, something "superfluous" which actually enriched his character beyond "I hate you, Shepard".

[Skywalker]

Yeah, something like that could have worked. And why did Kai Leng hate Shepard so much, anyway? Did he see Shepard as a threat to his status as TIM's #1 enforcer? Was he upset because TIM chose Shepard over Kai Leng to lead the fight against the Collectors? Or was it just a one-sided pissing contest for him?

The general point, I guess, is that you need more than just a cool look and a badass attitude to be a good villain (or even a good character). Kai Leng is, essentially, the Darth Maul of Mass Effect.

[Jeff O'Connor]

Sounds about right. He really should have had a line about why he hated Shepard so much. Better yet, he should have appeared very briefly in ME2, but since Karpyshyn hadn't created him yet that would have been pretty difficult.

[Reverend]

No, I think if they had Kai Leng mugging and monologuing like some cheesy comic book villain it would have been painful. Besides, he's not the main villain (because there really isn't one when you think about it) he's just a thug who happens to be a xenophobic psychopath...with an N7 rating. I actually found the little video clips of Leng in the Cronos Station level quite telling for his character. He feels threatened by Shepard and unless I'm mistaken, TIM actually respects Shepard more than Kai Leng.

Oh, and the asari scientists with their throats slit on Thessia was a nice callback...Actually, given the history, I wonder if they'll include Kai Leng in the Omega DLC? Not as (another) boss battle, but just there as a character.

[Camren]

I'll buy the Omega DLC but I'm not really expecting anything fascinating relating to Protheans or even the Omega Relay itself. I think it will simply be a case of clearing out Cerberus and that's it. I would be pleasantly surprised if the DLC fleshes out the Protheans or Reapers but I'm really not expecting it to.

[bullethead]

Camren wrote:

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I'll buy the Omega DLC but I'm not really expecting anything fascinating relating to Protheans or even the Omega Relay itself. I think it will simply be a case of clearing out Cerberus and that's it. I would be pleasantly surprised if the DLC fleshes out the Protheans or Reapers but I'm really not expecting it to.

Well, the Leviathan DLC coming out soon is gonna flesh out the Reapers, so there's that.

[Jeff O'Connor]

Yeah, you never know. They're clearly taking a somewhat different approach to single-player DLC with ME3 than with ME2, which makes sense because if the trilogy were a television series (bear with me) ME2 would still be set at a point in which more one-offs would be accepted by rabid fans wanting to know how it all ends. Overlord, Kasumi... fantastic one-offs. Leviathan's blatantly more grounded in the framework of the main arc.

[ATimson]

Jeff O'Connor wrote:

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Yeah, you never know. They're clearly taking a somewhat different approach to single-player DLC with ME3 than with ME2, which makes sense because if the trilogy were a television series (bear with me) ME2 would still be set at a point in which more one-offs would be accepted by rabid fans wanting to know how it all ends. Overlord, Kasumi... fantastic one-offs. Leviathan's blatantly more grounded in the framework of the main arc.

On the one hand, that makes sense.

On the other hand if what they do now fleshes out the main arc too much, people are going to whine about how it should've been in the base game instead.

Damned either way.

[RyuRoots]

Skywalker wrote:

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Yeah, something like that could have worked. And why did Kai Leng hate Shepard so much, anyway? Did he see Shepard as a threat to his status as TIM's #1 enforcer? Was he upset because TIM chose Shepard over Kai Leng to lead the fight against the Collectors? Or was it just a one-sided pissing contest for him?

The general point, I guess, is that you need more than just a cool look and a badass attitude to be a good villain (or even a good character). Kai Leng is, essentially, the Darth Maul of Mass Effect.

Only without the part where he ever seems legitimately threatening.

Someone who runs away from every engagement wherein he has neither an invincible (what) gunship and/or hardcore plot armor before getting utterly annihilated? Maul wasn't a deep character by any stretch, but I at least was capable of taking him seriously as someone dangerous with a lightsaber.

[Skywalker]

Good point. So Leng is even worse than Darth Maul.

[Reverend]

Jeff O'Connor wrote:

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Yeah, you never know. They're clearly taking a somewhat different approach to single-player DLC with ME3 than with ME2, which makes sense because if the trilogy were a television series (bear with me) ME2 would still be set at a point in which more one-offs would be accepted by rabid fans wanting to know how it all ends. Overlord, Kasumi... fantastic one-offs. Leviathan's blatantly more grounded in the framework of the main arc.

And then there was ME3's very first DLC. I don't care what Bioware claimed, having a prothean squadmate *was* central to the main plot.

ATimson wrote:

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On the one hand, that makes sense.

On the other hand if what they do now fleshes out the main arc too much, people are going to whine about how it should've been in the base game instead.

Damned either way.

Well people will always whine, the internets being the internets. That shouldn't stop anyone from doing what they think is a good idea.

[Jeyl]

Reverend wrote:

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And then there was ME3's very first DLC. I don't care what Bioware claimed, having a prothean squadmate *was* central to the main plot.

And I actually prefer the game without him. I know that's strange considering he's a Prothean, but geez. He's the most typical "I'm a warrior and I'm built to fight" trope that I've seen in so many other BioWare games. His appearance is too convenient, he's not that interesting and his design is uninspiring.