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Old August 2 2012, 02:40 AM   #871
JD
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

I just watched the first couple of production diaries, and after seeing how much everybody seemed to be really enjoying themselves, and how much they seemed to care about what they were making, I have no doubt all three movies will be great.
Jackson hasn't disappointed me yet. The LOTR movies are three of my favorite movies, and while I didn't enjoy them as much as LOTR I did like The Frighteners and King Kong.
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Old August 3 2012, 12:13 PM   #872
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

InklingStar wrote: View Post
Set Harth wrote: View Post
InklingStar wrote: View Post
Very few scenes that are straight from the books failed, while very few scenes that were added by Jackson, Walsh, and Boyens really worked. (With notable exceptions - Boromir's death, for example.)
That was in the books.
The battle that killed Boromir was offscreen, so to speak, in the books.
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But Boromir's death wasn't.
But the battle itself wasn't depicted is what I think is the point here. Obviously it happened, but it wasn't depicted. Just like in The Hobbit, Gandalf going off to fight The Necromancer wasn't depicted, but it was still said to have happened. By that logic Jackson isn't making anything out of thin air, he's elaborating on the details.
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Old August 3 2012, 08:18 PM   #873
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

JD wrote: View Post
I just watched the first couple of production diaries, and after seeing how much everybody seemed to be really enjoying themselves, and how much they seemed to care about what they were making, I have no doubt all three movies will be great.
Jackson hasn't disappointed me yet. The LOTR movies are three of my favorite movies, and while I didn't enjoy them as much as LOTR I did like The Frighteners and King Kong.
I love LOTR and just finished watching King Kong again last night. I really like that movie a great deal.

I think one has to understand why Peter Jackson does what he does. I watched the production diaries and I watched all the bonus material from LOTR and King Kong and they help me to appreciate what he has done even more.

I have no worries about a Hobbit trilogy.
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Old August 7 2012, 06:09 AM   #874
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

Beyond Antares wrote: View Post
The Lord of the Rings: 1157 pages and 3 movies.

The Hobbit: 300 pages...and 3 movies?
Talk about a meaningless statement.

1st. Is the writing style the same between the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings? The answer is no.

2nd. Did Jackson and Co have the option of expanding the material beyond a film release at the time? TEh answer is no.

3rd Was there a lot of material that wasn't included in Jackson's version of those LOTR films? Yes.

Could Jackson and Company included more material from the book's and maintain the same basic level of quality? I think you can make a very strong argument that he could has he did in fact do that to the tune of 35 to nearly an hour on each of the films from theatrical to DVD release.

Why then didn't he release longer versions of those films at the theatre? Because the studio said no.

And her is a very, very important question to ask yourself before complaining about three films. Do you know of any adaptions of small books that have been adapted successfully in a long release form?

I like two examples:

1. Jane Austin's Pride & Prejudice been adapted many times, yet the 8 part miniseries is considered the strongest adaption.

It does have some striking differences from the Hobbit. Its got a lot more dialogue and its far more descriptive, its also al little bit longer.

2. C.S. Forrester's Mr. Midshipman Hornblower made By A&E as 4 two hour miniseries. That book is actually shorter then the Hobbit, the production was an award winner, and like the Hobbit has little dialogue. In my opinion those tv productions are the finest examples of any adaption of those two writers, and both are in long form from similar length books. In the Hornblower case the latter works by A&E I found inferior, but they also were shorter having to cut the material basically in half.

Just because the public is used to having films so heavily edited to get them into a standard 2 to 2 and a half hour length doesn't mean that artist can't actually film the material and let it breathe, and actually be successful in the process.

So we know short stories can be filmed as two hour films (we have lots of examples), we also know that books can be long miniseries, and we know that separate books can be filmed and released a year apart and be successful.

So why is it so hard to understand that a book can be done in long form on film, like a miniseries (always designed with a stronger ended act) work on the big screen?

Is it really so hard to believe?
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Old August 7 2012, 08:40 AM   #875
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

Of course it can be done. Whether it's any good is another matter. I enjoyed the spectacle of the Ring trilogy very much and some of the acting was very good indeed. However there were editing decisions which ended up making it much more turgid than it should have been, especially in the last film.
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Old August 7 2012, 12:21 PM   #876
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

I think "whether it will be any good" is a valid question, but it's one that can't simply be answered by the length of the Hobbit book.* Once we move beyond that point can there actually be a meaningful discussion rather than a superficial one.

The question I've brought up before is the split. The two movie split:

made a lot of sense.

But I'm unsure where to split it in three. That's the biggest concern I have.

* I believe this is where you would add a "One does not simply judge the quality of a Hobbit movie by the length of the book" joke.
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Old August 7 2012, 12:55 PM   #877
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

So many long scenes in the LotR films are only one-liners in the book.

Just wait and see.

I personally made the choice not to re-read The Hobbit before watching any of the films. Has been a long time since I've read it anyway, and forgot about most of the details, so I probably can appreciate the film for what it is.
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Old August 7 2012, 01:38 PM   #878
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

Yeah, it's been awhile since I read the books - even when I saw LOTR it had been three or four years. That certainly helps make changed details smoother. My brother had just finished The Two Towers before watching the movie. He seemed surprised that Faramir came off as kind of a dick compared to the book.
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Old August 7 2012, 02:08 PM   #879
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Yeah, it's been awhile since I read the books - even when I saw LOTR it had been three or four years. That certainly helps make changed details smoother. My brother had just finished The Two Towers before watching the movie. He seemed surprised that Faramir came off as kind of a dick compared to the book.
That was my biggest gripe about the whole trilogy: changing Faramir. The whole point about Faramir was that he didn't give a flying fuck about the Ring. The complete opposite to Boromir.
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Old August 7 2012, 05:16 PM   #880
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

I agree.
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Old August 7 2012, 07:04 PM   #881
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Yeah, it's been awhile since I read the books - even when I saw LOTR it had been three or four years. That certainly helps make changed details smoother. My brother had just finished The Two Towers before watching the movie. He seemed surprised that Faramir came off as kind of a dick compared to the book.
That was my biggest gripe about the whole trilogy: changing Faramir. The whole point about Faramir was that he didn't give a flying fuck about the Ring. The complete opposite to Boromir.
I think Jackson's stated logic behind that decision that it rather undermines the ring's supposed power over the minds of men if Faramir can just shrug it off. It also makes Boromir look especially weak for almost instantly being seduced in Rivendale. Indeed, I felt that in the book, Boromir comes of as a complete oaf.

Still, it's worth noting that in the film Faramir did eventually let Frodo and the ring go. I'm sure part of that had to do with padding out the Frodo/Sam/Gollum story to make the inter-cutting work better. After all, any good adaptation much be true to it's own medium and the book as written just wouldn't work if they filmed it verbatim.

Plus, as much as I enjoy his works, Tolkien wasn't terribly adept at human drama, characterization or natural dialogue. Nor, to be fair, did he pretend to be.
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Old August 7 2012, 07:56 PM   #882
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

Reverend wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Yeah, it's been awhile since I read the books - even when I saw LOTR it had been three or four years. That certainly helps make changed details smoother. My brother had just finished The Two Towers before watching the movie. He seemed surprised that Faramir came off as kind of a dick compared to the book.
That was my biggest gripe about the whole trilogy: changing Faramir. The whole point about Faramir was that he didn't give a flying fuck about the Ring. The complete opposite to Boromir.
I think Jackson's stated logic behind that decision that it rather undermines the ring's supposed power over the minds of men if Faramir can just shrug it off. It also makes Boromir look especially weak for almost instantly being seduced in Rivendale. Indeed, I felt that in the book, Boromir comes of as a complete oaf.

Still, it's worth noting that in the film Faramir did eventually let Frodo and the ring go. I'm sure part of that had to do with padding out the Frodo/Sam/Gollum story to make the inter-cutting work better. After all, any good adaptation much be true to it's own medium and the book as written just wouldn't work if they filmed it verbatim.

Plus, as much as I enjoy his works, Tolkien wasn't terribly adept at human drama, characterization or natural dialogue. Nor, to be fair, did he pretend to be.
Yes, you are correct!

The great thing that Jackson did from the onset was to give himself permission to make changes, even significant ones, if those changes suited the screen story.
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Old August 7 2012, 08:06 PM   #883
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

I'm even less excited for three Hobbit movies than I was for one, let alone two. I recently tried to re-watch LotR and stopped about halfway through Fellowship. They just seem so stilted and dry, I can't imagine how thin a Hobbit trilogy will be.
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Old August 7 2012, 08:44 PM   #884
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

[QUOTE=Reverend;6738185]
SalvorHardin wrote: View Post
Do you mean to suggest that a professional film-maker who's made himself a millionaire producing, directing and co-writing his own projects and founded some of the most sought after FX companies in the business might know more about his job than a bunch of over opinionated nerds on the internet? Preposterous!!
What does George Lucas have to do with this?
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Old August 7 2012, 11:35 PM   #885
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Re: THE HOBBIT (2012/2013): News, Rumors, Pics Till Release

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Yeah, it's been awhile since I read the books - even when I saw LOTR it had been three or four years. That certainly helps make changed details smoother. My brother had just finished The Two Towers before watching the movie. He seemed surprised that Faramir came off as kind of a dick compared to the book.
That was my biggest gripe about the whole trilogy: changing Faramir. The whole point about Faramir was that he didn't give a flying fuck about the Ring. The complete opposite to Boromir.
Yeah, I agree. I thought it would play well for people to expect the worst and he turns out to be ok. But I also agree that even Gandalf could be tempted so it was a bit unrealistic.

But it bugged me the most - more than the army of the dead (which I remembered having a role, but I guess most have felt their role was too large in the movie).
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