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Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

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Old July 31 2012, 06:56 PM   #61
Knight Templar
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Re: If annother Trek series was being made, what would you want in it?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Knight Templar wrote: View Post
Use of Time wrote: View Post


Yeah and they should all be white men too, preferably of Christian doctrine. j/k
My preference but not a priority.
How do people like you end up Star Trek fans to begin with?

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Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Knight Templar wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Star Trek without aliens would be like Dark Shadows without vampires.

I don't see the point.
Never said "without aliens" Greg.

I said "main cast".
But where's the fun in that? Can you imagine TOS without Spock? He was the most popular character! Or TNG without Worf? Or DS9 without Quark or Odo or Dax or Kira? Or Voyager without the EMH or Seven of Nine?

If you want an all-human cast, why not just watch Law & Order?

!
Spock was half human so his purpose was to explore the dual nature of a person the emotional versus the logical and reasonable part.

Worf was a Klingon and thus was not bound by the "no conflict" preferences on the ST:TNG producers.

I could've done without Dax, Odo, Kira and I loathed Quark.

If Law & Order featured starships firing photon torpedoes I would consider it......
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Old July 31 2012, 07:13 PM   #62
Use of Time
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Re: If annother Trek series was being made, what would you want in it?

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Knight Templar wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Star Trek without aliens would be like Dark Shadows without vampires.

I don't see the point.
Never said "without aliens" Greg.

I said "main cast".
But where's the fun in that? Can you imagine TOS without Spock? He was the most popular character! Or TNG without Worf? Or DS9 without Quark or Odo or Dax or Kira? Or Voyager without the EMH or Seven of Nine?

If you want an all-human cast, why not just watch Law & Order?

Star Trek has always welcomed regular characters from strange new worlds and new civilizations. That's kind of its mission statement.

I mean, what on Earth (or Vulcan) do you gain by getting rid of all the cool alien regulars? They're usually the most interesting ones!

(And I'm not going to even touch the white, Christian men thing. Star Trek ditched that "preference" almost fifty years ago--and good riddance!)
As a fairly new commenter let me just make it very clear that my comment was a tongue in cheek response to Knight Templar regarding his preference for the most bland cast of all time. It was a joke but I don't know if he is joking or not when he says that those are his preferences. I think most people know that I am joking but you never know how someone might take that comment our of context.
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Old July 31 2012, 07:22 PM   #63
Knight Templar
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Re: If annother Trek series was being made, what would you want in it?

Use of Time wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Knight Templar wrote: View Post


Never said "without aliens" Greg.

I said "main cast".
But where's the fun in that? Can you imagine TOS without Spock? He was the most popular character! Or TNG without Worf? Or DS9 without Quark or Odo or Dax or Kira? Or Voyager without the EMH or Seven of Nine?

If you want an all-human cast, why not just watch Law & Order?

Star Trek has always welcomed regular characters from strange new worlds and new civilizations. That's kind of its mission statement.

I mean, what on Earth (or Vulcan) do you gain by getting rid of all the cool alien regulars? They're usually the most interesting ones!

(And I'm not going to even touch the white, Christian men thing. Star Trek ditched that "preference" almost fifty years ago--and good riddance!)
As a fairly new commenter let me just make it very clear that my comment was a tongue in cheek response to Knight Templar regarding his preference for the most bland cast of all time. It was a joke but I don't know if he is joking or not when he says that those are his preferences. I think most people know that I am joking but you never know how someone might take that comment our of context.
So white Christians are automatically "bland"?

Isn't that a clearly racist statement?

I thought personality and other individual attributes meant more than sex, race, and religion anyway?
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Old July 31 2012, 07:28 PM   #64
Use of Time
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Re: If annother Trek series was being made, what would you want in it?

Knight Templar wrote: View Post
Use of Time wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post

But where's the fun in that? Can you imagine TOS without Spock? He was the most popular character! Or TNG without Worf? Or DS9 without Quark or Odo or Dax or Kira? Or Voyager without the EMH or Seven of Nine?

If you want an all-human cast, why not just watch Law & Order?

Star Trek has always welcomed regular characters from strange new worlds and new civilizations. That's kind of its mission statement.

I mean, what on Earth (or Vulcan) do you gain by getting rid of all the cool alien regulars? They're usually the most interesting ones!

(And I'm not going to even touch the white, Christian men thing. Star Trek ditched that "preference" almost fifty years ago--and good riddance!)
As a fairly new commenter let me just make it very clear that my comment was a tongue in cheek response to Knight Templar regarding his preference for the most bland cast of all time. It was a joke but I don't know if he is joking or not when he says that those are his preferences. I think most people know that I am joking but you never know how someone might take that comment our of context.
So white Christians are automatically "bland"?

Isn't that a clearly racist statement?

I thought personality and other individual attributes meant more than sex, race, and religion anyway?
Whoa, whoa, whoa. It was an allusion to what Greg was saying about the "preference" 50 years ago and how it is antiquated. There is no denying that watching television in the 60's you would predominately see white men in what is predominately a Christian dominated country statistically. I would consider the diversity of T.V. characters in a given show today much more diverse than those of the 60's wouldn't you?

To summarize, are white Christians bland? No. Is a ship full of them on a T.V. show bland? IMO Yes
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Old July 31 2012, 07:56 PM   #65
BillJ
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Re: If annother Trek series was being made, what would you want in it?

Use of Time wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Knight Templar wrote: View Post


Never said "without aliens" Greg.

I said "main cast".
But where's the fun in that? Can you imagine TOS without Spock? He was the most popular character! Or TNG without Worf? Or DS9 without Quark or Odo or Dax or Kira? Or Voyager without the EMH or Seven of Nine?

If you want an all-human cast, why not just watch Law & Order?

Star Trek has always welcomed regular characters from strange new worlds and new civilizations. That's kind of its mission statement.

I mean, what on Earth (or Vulcan) do you gain by getting rid of all the cool alien regulars? They're usually the most interesting ones!

(And I'm not going to even touch the white, Christian men thing. Star Trek ditched that "preference" almost fifty years ago--and good riddance!)
As a fairly new commenter let me just make it very clear that my comment was a tongue in cheek response to Knight Templar regarding his preference for the most bland cast of all time. It was a joke but I don't know if he is joking or not when he says that those are his preferences. I think most people know that I am joking but you never know how someone might take that comment our of context.
He's quite serious. All you have to do is check out some of the stuff he posts over in The Neutral Zone forum.
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Old July 31 2012, 08:05 PM   #66
Knight Templar
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Re: If annother Trek series was being made, what would you want in it?

Use of Time wrote: View Post

To summarize, are white Christians bland? No. Is a ship full of them on a T.V. show bland? IMO Yes
Interestingly enough I did not bring up the "white Christians".

I brought up an "all human" cast.

Personally, I think the human race is quite diverse enough without having aliens among the regular crew.
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Old July 31 2012, 08:06 PM   #67
Use of Time
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Re: If annother Trek series was being made, what would you want in it?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Use of Time wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post

But where's the fun in that? Can you imagine TOS without Spock? He was the most popular character! Or TNG without Worf? Or DS9 without Quark or Odo or Dax or Kira? Or Voyager without the EMH or Seven of Nine?

If you want an all-human cast, why not just watch Law & Order?

Star Trek has always welcomed regular characters from strange new worlds and new civilizations. That's kind of its mission statement.

I mean, what on Earth (or Vulcan) do you gain by getting rid of all the cool alien regulars? They're usually the most interesting ones!

(And I'm not going to even touch the white, Christian men thing. Star Trek ditched that "preference" almost fifty years ago--and good riddance!)
As a fairly new commenter let me just make it very clear that my comment was a tongue in cheek response to Knight Templar regarding his preference for the most bland cast of all time. It was a joke but I don't know if he is joking or not when he says that those are his preferences. I think most people know that I am joking but you never know how someone might take that comment our of context.
He's quite serious. All you have to do is check out some of the stuff he posts over in The Neutral Zone forum.
Yeah, I figured that out when somehow through all of that I end up the one getting called racist. I think I'm just going to leave this conversation alone. Diversity in Star Trek is what made it work in the 60's and what will make it succeed again in the future.
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Old July 31 2012, 08:13 PM   #68
Sindatur
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Re: If annother Trek series was being made, what would you want in it?

Knight Templar wrote: View Post
Use of Time wrote: View Post

To summarize, are white Christians bland? No. Is a ship full of them on a T.V. show bland? IMO Yes
Interestingly enough I did not bring up the "white Christians".

I brought up an "all human" cast.

Personally, I think the human race is quite diverse enough without having aliens among the regular crew.
That is correct, you didn't bring it up, however, when the suggestion was offered of "I suppose all White Christian", you replied, "that would be my preference", so, wether you brought it up or not is irrelevant, since you agreed with it. Now of course, you may have only been joking, but, there is no indication of that.
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Old July 31 2012, 08:13 PM   #69
Greg Cox
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Re: If annother Trek series was being made, what would you want in it?

Use of Time wrote: View Post
To summarize, are white Christians bland? No. Is a ship full of them on a T.V. show bland? IMO Yes
Exactly. The problem wouldn't be the whiteness, it would be the uniformity. And lack of diversity.

Perhaps "monotonous" would be a better word than "bland."

You know, a while back, I was watching an old SF movie that was made about the same time as TOS. Ohmigod, it was like watching "Mad Men" in space. The heroes were all square-jawed white American guys, the women were all secretaries and nurses (who cowered in fear whenever there was danger), and there was nary a non-white face to be seen, even though the movie was set in a distant future of interstellar travel.

To modern eyes, the whole thing looked ridiculously dated, which reminded me just how smart (and ahead of the curve) STAR TREK had been to make sure that the crew of the Enterprise was conspicuously diverse.

I can't imagine why anyone would want to turn back the clock and go back to the bad old days when only white guys went to space . . . especially right after the passing of Sally Ride.

And, just to get the topic back on track, exotic aliens just add to the variety, not to mention making the future world of Star Trek feel more science-fictiony.
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Old July 31 2012, 08:24 PM   #70
Use of Time
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Re: If annother Trek series was being made, what would you want in it?

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Use of Time wrote: View Post
To summarize, are white Christians bland? No. Is a ship full of them on a T.V. show bland? IMO Yes
Exactly. The problem wouldn't be the whiteness, it would be the uniformity. And lack of diversity.

Perhaps "monotonous" would be a better word than "bland."

You know, a while back, I was watching an old SF movie that was made about the same time as TOS. Ohmigod, it was like watching "Mad Men" in space. The heroes were all squared-jawed white guys, the women were all secretaries and nurses (who cowered in fear whenever there was danger), and there was nary a non-white face to be seen, even though the movie was set in a distant future of interstellar travel.

To modern eyes, the whole thing looked ridiculously dated, which reminded me just how smart (and ahead of the curve) STAR TREK had been to make sure that the crew of the Enterprise was conspicuously diverse.

I can't imagine why anyone would want to turn back the clock and go back to the bad old days when only white guys went to space . . . especially right after the passing of Sally Ride.

And, just to get the topic back on track, exotic aliens just add to the variety, not to mention making the future world of Star Trek feel more science-fictiony.
Yes, you are watching this standard sci-fi movie and then you turn to CBS and you see a black communications officer, an Asian helmsman, a Russian navigator, etc. Star Trek was bold and daring in its time. It's what made the show great.

P.S. Pardon the segue as I am somewhat new. If you happen to be the Greg Cox that wrote the Eugenics Wars novels than let me just say that my wife will not be happy with you as I read both books in one weekend last month. Couldn't put them down. Fantastic blending of historical events with the distinctive Star Trek feel. Great Job!
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Old July 31 2012, 08:32 PM   #71
Greg Cox
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Re: If annother Trek series was being made, what would you want in it?

Use of Time wrote: View Post
P.S. Pardon the segue as I am somewhat new. If you happen to be the Greg Cox that wrote the Eugenics Wars novels than let me just say that my wife will not be happy with you as I read both books in one weekend last month. Couldn't put them down. Fantastic blending of historical events with the distinctive Star Trek feel. Great Job!
That's me. Thanks!

And my apologies to your wife!
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Old August 1 2012, 01:59 PM   #72
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Re: If annother Trek series was being made, what would you want in it?

The next Trek series needs more aliens, especially in the background. Going through DS9 again, I can't help but love seeing all the old alien species pop up on the Promenade (Pakled, Benzite, Bolian, etc) as well as many new ones who aren't identified. Starfleet isn't homosapiens only!

So long as a character isn't just a "token" (they are well developed, written and acted) then I don't really care where they came from.
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Old August 4 2012, 03:48 PM   #73
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Re: If annother Trek series was being made, what would you want in it?

Yeah, I think we need more aliens too, but ones which look cool, not crappy ones.
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Old August 4 2012, 11:10 PM   #74
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Re: If annother Trek series was being made, what would you want in it?

Herkimer Jitty wrote: View Post
All the main characters ought to have good, personal reasons for being where they are in the universe.
Which should be explored over time. With many of the characters in the many series we gained no idea of why they joined Starfleet in the first place. Spock joined to leave home, a few joined because of family tradition. It would say a lot about the character as to why they joined up.

Please don't have it be the same reason for all ... boring.

police/detective/law procedurals are the rage these days, so why not take after them a bit?
A Star Trek: Law and Order might not be a good idea, but do some thinking as to why "police procedurals" are so popular in the first place, and put those elements into a future non-police Star Trek.

Many police procedurals are in actuality mysteries, people like those. A well run mystery will give the audience enough clues to figure things out along with the cops.

Police procedurals are the good guy verse the bad guys. While the criminals of today are often complex in their make-up, they are still the opponents of civilization, the audience can feel good at the end of the episode when they (usually) get their come-upance'.

Police procedurals only occasionally depict the top brass, and usually concentrate on the low and middle level people who actually get the work done. Cops on the beat, and detectives. Team leader Gibbs doesn't run NCIS, Night-shift Grissom on CSI didn't run the Las Vegas Police Department , they aren't the "people upstairs.

Most of the audience also are not the people upstairs.

More moral and ethical ambiguity.
I love these, but don't think they can be a every week thing, I think the audience would "burn out" if that all they were getting from the show.

Keep time travel to an absolute minimum
How much would it hurt, if we discontinued time travel all together?

The ship would be an old-as-hell rustbucket that's fallen behind the times.
Maybe a ship like the Enterprise in TOS, unlike any of the other series main ships she wasn't brand new, and had a feel of history about her. But at the same time she was by any means a "rustbucket." She was a older workhorse, out in the trenches, and not a flagship.

Green Lantern wrote: View Post
Yeah, I think we need more aliens too, but ones which look cool, not crappy ones.
I'd like to see an end to the overdone facial prosthesis. At most what was done with the Bajorians and the Vulcans. Have the actors and actresses act alien, be written alien. And not have them walking around with this big sign on their faces that says "hey look, I'm an alien."

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Old August 5 2012, 12:28 AM   #75
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Re: If annother Trek series was being made, what would you want in it?

police procedurals today work mainly because there are vast elements of them that require no familarization anymore to an audience.

For example, people are so familar with Miranda warnings that you can do them on any series and they don't have to be explained.

That would not be true on a "sci fi police procedural".
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