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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old July 31 2012, 02:44 PM   #31
Christopher
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Re: Star Trek V's canon status

BillJ wrote: View Post
Does canon vs. non-canon really matter in the home video era? I own it and can watch it whenever I want.
Well, by current definitions (remember, Roddenberry's definitions ceased to apply when he died over two decades ago, so it's rather odd that fans are still up in arms about them), if it's onscreen, then it's part of the canon.

And again, canon is not, has never been, and never will be about telling the audience what they can or can't watch/believe/enjoy. That's a myth and a fundamental misunderstanding of the concept. After all, it's all fictional anyway, none of it more real than any other part. Although the term "canon" comes from religion and implies that texts outside canon should not be read at all, it's silly to apply that same dogmatism or exclusionism to a fictional canon. If you enjoy a story, you should be able to enjoy it just as well whether it's part of the official/original continuity or an apocryphal tale.

I like to say that if canon is history, then tie-ins are historical fiction. They're stories that aren't a documented part of the "real" history, but that potentially could have happened within it -- at least until some new "discovery" is made (in some new episode or movie) that proves they couldn't. And it's not like watching TV or movies is a history course where you have to get the right answers on a final exam. It's strictly recreational. I'm sure there are plenty of people who enjoy reading both historical nonfiction and historical fiction. If you enjoy history, then both can be valuable. You may know that the latter probably didn't happen, but it can still be entertaining to believe it could have happened, and at least it can give you the pleasure of imagining yourself in the historical setting you enjoy.

And of course, unlike real history, canon is just as imaginary as the tie-ins derived from it, so that makes the distinction even less worth making a fuss over.
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Old July 31 2012, 02:47 PM   #32
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Re: Star Trek V's canon status

As an aside, if you have a TNG writer's guide, you'll see some of what in STV Gene and others considered apocryphal. Shakaree, or however you spell it, was pretty much tossed out as a joke.
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Old July 31 2012, 03:20 PM   #33
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Re: Star Trek V's canon status

jayrath wrote: View Post
As an aside, if you have a TNG writer's guide, you'll see some of what in STV Gene and others considered apocryphal. Shakaree, or however you spell it, was pretty much tossed out as a joke.
Which edition, though? ST V wasn't on movie screens till June 1989 - and TNG had been airing since September 1987.
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Old July 31 2012, 03:43 PM   #34
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Re: Star Trek V's canon status

jayrath wrote: View Post
As an aside, if you have a TNG writer's guide, you'll see some of what in STV Gene and others considered apocryphal. Shakaree, or however you spell it, was pretty much tossed out as a joke.

the name or the concept? The name was just a riff on Sean Connery, and the concept is no more or less absurd than it was in "way to Eden," so I wonder why that would be seen as a joke specifically.
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Old July 31 2012, 03:57 PM   #35
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Re: Star Trek V's canon status

sonak wrote: View Post
The name was just a riff on Sean Connery, and the concept is no more or less absurd than it was in "way to Eden," so I wonder why that would be seen as a joke specifically.
The TNG episode, "The Nth Degree", managed to pay homage to ST V by featuring the Cytherians and making them resemble the God Entity of Shakaree. It wasn't clearly linked in the script but, according to Richard Arnold, the God Entity was possibly a rogue, imprisoned Cytherian.
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Last edited by Therin of Andor; August 1 2012 at 07:28 AM. Reason: typo
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Old August 1 2012, 01:49 AM   #36
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Re: Star Trek V's canon status

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
sonak wrote: View Post
The name was just a riff on Sean Connery, and the concept is no more or less absurd than it was in "way to Eden," so I wonder why that would be seen as a joke specifically.
The TNG episode, "The Nth Degree", managed to pay homage to ST V by featuring the Cytherians and making them resemble the God Entity of Shakaree. It wasn't clearly linked in the script but, according to Richard Arnold, the God Entity was a possibly a rogue, imprisoned Cytherian.

Didn't know that. Cool, thanks for the info.
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Old August 5 2012, 06:48 AM   #37
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Re: Star Trek V's canon status

Nekkid Uhura is NOT CANON.

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Old August 5 2012, 09:56 AM   #38
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Re: Star Trek V's canon status

It was a Star Trek movie, which means it is canon no matter what anyone said later, until Paramount start selling box sets without it then it is a canon Star Trek film. If you discount one you may as well discount all of the films and TV episodes at will.
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Old August 5 2012, 11:14 AM   #39
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Re: Star Trek V's canon status

Romulus Prime wrote: View Post
Nekkid Uhura is NOT CANON.
IIRC, in the ST V comic adaptation, she pulls a phaser on Sybok's minions - and friends wanted to know, "Where did she hide that?"
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Old August 5 2012, 06:54 PM   #40
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Re: Star Trek V's canon status

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Romulus Prime wrote: View Post
Nekkid Uhura is NOT CANON.
IIRC, in the ST V comic adaptation, she pulls a phaser on Sybok's minions - and friends wanted to know, "Where did she hide that?"
LMFAO

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Old August 6 2012, 06:23 PM   #41
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Re: Star Trek V's canon status

jayrath wrote: View Post
As an aside, if you have a TNG writer's guide, you'll see some of what in STV Gene and others considered apocryphal. Shakaree, or however you spell it, was pretty much tossed out as a joke.
But even in the movie Shakaree was a joke. They never went to where they would "find" God. If that's what GR objected to, it is discounted in the movie itself that it was something the bad alien telepathically sent out to Sybok to bring him a ship.
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Old August 6 2012, 09:07 PM   #42
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Re: Star Trek V's canon status

Romulus Prime wrote: View Post
Nekkid Uhura is NOT CANON.

Too bad TFF wasn't made in about 1966.

Christopher wrote: View Post
When the original creator/producer of a franchise is still alive and overseeing the productions, it's easy to define canon: it's what the creator/producer says it is (as in the case of Star Wars),
Han shot first, and Greedo never fired at all.
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Old August 8 2012, 08:08 AM   #43
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Re: Star Trek V's canon status

Photoman15 wrote: View Post
If that's what GR objected to, it is discounted in the movie itself that it was something the bad alien telepathically sent out to Sybok to bring him a ship.
IIRC, GR objected to the revelation that Spock had a sibling, even if only a half-sibling, since they'd put out memos during TOS suggesting that Spock not have any.

He also disliked McCoy mercy-killing his own father, although DeForest Kelly liked the chance of doing such a powerful scene.
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Old August 8 2012, 03:10 PM   #44
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Re: Star Trek V's canon status

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
IIRC, GR objected to the revelation that Spock had a sibling, even if only a half-sibling, since they'd put out memos during TOS suggesting that Spock not have any.
Wow, did he really believe a movie produced in the 80s should follow a few irrelevant memos from the 60s? That's crazy.

It doesn't matter though, Roddenberry wasn't in a position to declare a movie or parts of it apocryphal or non-canon.
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Old August 8 2012, 03:23 PM   #45
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Re: Star Trek V's canon status

Takeru wrote: View Post
Wow, did he really believe a movie produced in the 80s should follow a few irrelevant memos from the 60s? That's crazy.
How is it crazy for the person who created the Spock character in the first place to want depictions of that character to be true to what he intended?


It doesn't matter though, Roddenberry wasn't in a position to declare a movie or parts of it apocryphal or non-canon.
Actually, he was. As the producer of TNG at the time, he was in charge of creating new canonical content (others actually did the work by that point, but they answered to him while he lived), and so he was perfectly within his rights to choose to disregard prior content. That's essentially all that canon means in any practical sense: it's what the makers of new screen content choose to abide by. (And what the creators of tie-in literature are obliged to follow -- but it's the showrunners who define and decide what is canonical at any given time.)
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