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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old July 28 2012, 01:53 PM   #226
Warped Trekker
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Re: The OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Season 1 Discussion Thread

The Digital Bits response on the audio sync issue is very laughable! I almost fell out of my chair laughing. They say the more work your player has to do can cause an audio sync issue. That tells you right there that these people dont know anything about the digital format and how it works. All blu-ray players have to follow a specific specification on the format with no deviation. If you are getting audio sync issues, it can be several things:
1. Your TV's signal processing adding the delay.
2. Your receiver's processing adding a delay.
Most receivers and tvs these days have adjustments for audio sync issues.
3. If your equipment supports Lip Sync then turn it on and that will automatically adjust the delay for you. The HDMI format allows the tv to communicate back to other devices to tell it what kind of delay to expect. Then your player or receiver adjusts for the delay.
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Old July 28 2012, 02:12 PM   #227
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Re: The OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Season 1 Discussion Thread

^ FWIW, the staff at The Digital Bits is usually competent. Now, speaking personally as a software developer, I find the provided explanation to be rather flimsy, and yes, even if true it would seem to hint at unorthodox (and likely unintentional) authoring choices. However, I also don't find it inconceivable that a disc could be authored in a way that would cause A/V desync on some players. These specifications are quite complex, and the software and hardware implementing them has to be quite sophisticated. They're also supersets of specifications which in itself are very complicated, e.g. the codecs in use (a H.264 decoder is no trivial matter). At the same time, low-cost consumer implementations of them do try to cut corners and will only barely meet the certification requirements in some areas of the spec. There's a huge amount of possible variety for the input (e.g. a H.264 bitstream is quite flexible, and an encoder can create bitstreams with vastly different characteristics) which can hit the codepaths in these implementations in different ways, and some may function poorly.

Given all this, I see no reason to believe their statements are false. But that doesn't mean the discs shouldn't be overhauled.
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Old July 28 2012, 02:13 PM   #228
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Re: The OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Season 1 Discussion Thread

cbspock wrote: View Post
I don't get the second part, I dont have to adjust any settings for any of my other blu rays. I am watching the extras on disc 1, and the voice is slightly out of sync with the picture.

I think the Bit's second piece of advice is a load of crap


-Chris
if people have their players and receivers misconfigured, yes they can have audio sync issues. A lot of tvs video processing can add some minor delays. But to blame a high end bluray play like Oppo, lol. My Oppo BDP93 has no issue with playing discs, even encoded discs that I burn that uses more nitrate that is out of the bluray spec. The hardware can easily handle higher bitrate encodes. The problem is the mastering process they used and is definitely a flaw with these discs. Bluray players all have specific specs and need to handle bitrates all the same way. They are just trying to get off easy by blaming the consumers players.
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Old July 28 2012, 02:22 PM   #229
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Re: The OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Season 1 Discussion Thread

Warped Trekker wrote: View Post
cbspock wrote: View Post
I don't get the second part, I dont have to adjust any settings for any of my other blu rays. I am watching the extras on disc 1, and the voice is slightly out of sync with the picture.

I think the Bit's second piece of advice is a load of crap


-Chris
if people have their players and receivers misconfigured, yes they can have audio sync issues. A lot of tvs video processing can add some minor delays. But to blame a high end bluray play like Oppo, lol. My Oppo BDP93 has no issue with playing discs, even encoded discs that I burn that uses more nitrate that is out of the bluray spec. The hardware can easily handle higher bitrate encodes. The problem is the mastering process they used and is definitely a flaw with these discs. Bluray players all have specific specs and need to handle bitrates all the same way. They are just trying to get off easy by blaming the consumers players.
I've got an older Magnavox player which I've owned for three years and was relatively cheap ($128) and never had audio sync issues until this particular set.
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Old July 28 2012, 02:36 PM   #230
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Re: The OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Season 1 Discussion Thread

I have a PS3 Slim with no sync errors. However, I definitely noticed the "1920s telephone" quality of the sound in "Haven." Thankfully, a quick switch to the second audio track solved that. Aside from that audio, so far, the set is amazing. Terrific picture quality, love that the original promos are there, and the documentaries are fantastic!
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Old July 28 2012, 02:42 PM   #231
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Re: The OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Season 1 Discussion Thread

TrekAlliance92 wrote: View Post
I have a PS3 Slim with no sync errors. However, I definitely noticed the "1920s telephone" quality of the sound in "Haven." Thankfully, a quick switch to the second audio track solved that. Aside from that audio, so far, the set is amazing. Terrific picture quality, love that the original promos are there, and the documentaries are fantastic!
I still have to try the discs with problem spots through my PS3 and see if I notice the same issues. Just hate using it for blu-ray viewing because it consumes so much more power than my Magnavox.
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Old July 28 2012, 11:39 PM   #232
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Re: The OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Season 1 Discussion Thread

Heart of Glory is still the best Klingon episode the various series ever produced. Absolutely stunning in HD.
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Old July 29 2012, 01:15 AM   #233
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Re: The OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Season 1 Discussion Thread

So i've been watching S1 on DVD ahead of the bluray release just so i can appreciate the changes a little bit more, and it struck me that despite the sometimes cringeworthy writing and acting, the storylines were so much more ambitious than what we got in the latter seasons. The direction, lighting and actual science fiction storylines all had a sense of wonder and awe that seemed to disappear by the time S7 rolled around. Unfortunate really.
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Old July 29 2012, 01:21 AM   #234
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Re: The OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Season 1 Discussion Thread

Hm, I can't say I agree. S7 specifically had some very heavy scifi episodes: Emergence dealt in the creation of new life, Attached explored merging consciousnesses (while also being one of TNG's strongest character episodes), Interface considered telepresence, Homeward is classic social scifi, heck even Masks is pretty damn high-concept. If anything, TNG's scifi-heavy episodes got a lot more sophisticated and smarter as time went on, IMHO.
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Old July 29 2012, 01:50 AM   #235
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Re: The OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Season 1 Discussion Thread

mr.peany wrote: View Post
So i've been watching S1 on DVD ahead of the bluray release just so i can appreciate the changes a little bit more, and it struck me that despite the sometimes cringeworthy writing and acting, the storylines were so much more ambitious than what we got in the latter seasons. The direction, lighting and actual science fiction storylines all had a sense of wonder and awe that seemed to disappear by the time S7 rolled around. Unfortunate really.
Season one of TNG has always been my favorite of the series by a rather large margin and ranks as my third favorite season of Trek behind TOS 1 & 2.

There was a sense of wonder about the universe the show seemed to lose after Roddenberry was no longer involved in its day-to-day operation.
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Old July 29 2012, 01:59 AM   #236
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Re: The OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Season 1 Discussion Thread

Yeah I would have to agree. Theres a charm and eagerness that is missing from subsequent seasons. Music, Direction and the cast is spot on. I for one loved the Tasha/Worf dynamic and had the writing been a little sharper they could have been one of the best relationships in Trek.
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Old July 29 2012, 02:11 AM   #237
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Re: The OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Season 1 Discussion Thread

mr.peany wrote: View Post
I for one loved the Tasha/Worf dynamic and had the writing been a little sharper they could have been one of the best relationships in Trek.
The problem is that Worf has little enough to do as it is; they had two more bridge staff than stations (if you count Wesley).

Promoting LaForge to chief engineer cleared up one of those (he ended up in Engineering doing the job often enough during the first season anyways--!), but they still had three officers (Worf, Crusher, Data) for two stations (ops & conn). Getting rid of Tasha let them put Worf at her station, giving everyone their own place.
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Old July 29 2012, 02:15 AM   #238
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Re: The OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Season 1 Discussion Thread

ATimson wrote: View Post
mr.peany wrote: View Post
I for one loved the Tasha/Worf dynamic and had the writing been a little sharper they could have been one of the best relationships in Trek.
The problem is that Worf has little enough to do as it is; they had two more bridge staff than stations (if you count Wesley).

Promoting LaForge to chief engineer cleared up one of those (he ended up in Engineering doing the job often enough during the first season anyways--!), but they still had three officers (Worf, Crusher, Data) for two stations (ops & conn). Getting rid of Tasha let them put Worf at her station, giving everyone their own place.
You could've simply sent Wesley to engineering with LaForge and left Worf in his original position as a general bridge officer.
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Old July 29 2012, 06:46 AM   #239
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Re: The OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Season 1 Discussion Thread

Sho wrote: View Post
Scotty wrote: View Post
gaghyogi49 wrote: View Post
Here's a comparison shot from "Where no one has gone before" that shows how the 2-foot model, which didn't have interior window lights, finally got those lights for the remastered version of the episode. Isn't that just excellent?

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/137586
That looks like a CG shot to me.
Yeah, if you look really closely at the surface detailling and the outlines, it's not the same model. Damn close match though, great work. Very consistent with the shots of the 6-footer too.
Images put in spoiler tags to shorten the posts page length.

This is the 2 foot model... it looks different mainly because the different passes are aligned more properly.

The 2 foot model was also indeed lit... they just were unable to use the lighting for the warp jump sequences, due to the method of attaining the effect, slit scan photography... in the original version, you can see the window pass fading out as the model goes into the turn... but how they added the windows, etc. back in, is beyond me... I asked Mike and Denise Okuda though.

Not sure why they didn't fix shots using this CG model:



... when the original footage was found, to be used in this shot:



Same with the first shot in the EaF separation sequence, since this is the original shot...

Remastered:


... to get the shot in EaF all one would need to do is flip the footage horizonatally... I also noticed they fixed the perspective of the stars warping past...

Original:


Remastered Flipped:


As for the audio issues, I've had no issues with syncing when using the stereo track... with the 7.1, I've noticed the tin can echoing... but other than that, no issues with sound.

When it comes to the credits, of the Enterprise going to warp, the sounds were always slightly delayed, even on the original DVD's... I think it's mainly due to adhering to the whole light travels faster than sound principle, even though there is no sound in space... I'm guessing that's why that delay is there... anyway.
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Old July 29 2012, 07:37 AM   #240
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Re: The OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Season 1 Discussion Thread

Watched Where No One Has Gone Before and was slightly disappointed by the remastering. I saw a lot of white specks and print damaged that hadn't been removed. Just watch the dark sickbay scenes.
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