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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old July 27 2012, 08:09 PM   #196
Kup1986
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Re: The operational status of NCC 1701-A...?

I made it to page 8, and need to get back to work so I dont know if anyone on the latter pages brought this point up or not yet. But, I always thought it went something like this:

"We have high hopes, that if this is successful, it will generate enough power to keep us alive".

From TVH, after Cartwright hails the Yorktown.

Why is everyone so worried about the captain and crew of the Yorktown losing their ship to Kirk when its entirely possible they lost their lives to the probe?

Suddenly, Starfleet has a damaged, yet salvable ship with no crew to man her -- and the crew of the Enterprise just happens to deserve a ship. Rename her Enterprise, fix what appears to be broken (which, didn't happen obviously), and send them on their merry way.

I mean its kind of morbid, but it works....
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Old July 27 2012, 10:11 PM   #197
zephramc
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Re: The operational status of NCC 1701-A...?

Kup1986 wrote: View Post
I made it to page 8, and need to get back to work so I dont know if anyone on the latter pages brought this point up or not yet. But, I always thought it went something like this:

"We have high hopes, that if this is successful, it will generate enough power to keep us alive".

From TVH, after Cartwright hails the Yorktown.

Why is everyone so worried about the captain and crew of the Yorktown losing their ship to Kirk when its entirely possible they lost their lives to the probe?

Suddenly, Starfleet has a damaged, yet salvable ship with no crew to man her -- and the crew of the Enterprise just happens to deserve a ship. Rename her Enterprise, fix what appears to be broken (which, didn't happen obviously), and send them on their merry way.

I mean its kind of morbid, but it works....
I suppose one could chalk up all of the technical problems plaguing the ship in STV to be the restless spirits of the deceased Yorktown crew. Starfleet may have been forced to retire the ship, not because of age or damage, but due to the fact that everyone was too scared to serve aboard her.

Last edited by zephramc; July 27 2012 at 10:36 PM.
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Old July 30 2012, 06:51 AM   #198
Peach Wookiee
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Re: The operational status of NCC 1701-A...?

A thought... there are probably a few admirals that are mad at Jim. They wanted revenge. They got it.
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Old July 30 2012, 08:34 PM   #199
blueziggy
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Re: The operational status of NCC 1701-A...?

i always subscribed to the yorktown theory. yes its a little grim that the crew might have perished and they are getting a ghost ship, but it can explain a great multitude of things in the next few movies:

the pristine condition of the bridge at the end of TVH = starfleet gave it a good scrubbing after the events of the probe crisis and yorktown crews demise.

the problems in TFF = issues with equipment failing because of the probe and/or yorktown's crew doing whatever they can to survive

the retirement of the enterprise at the end of TUC = its an old and now severely damaged ship

granted nothing backs up this theory, but it plausible.
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Old July 30 2012, 11:22 PM   #200
Rulius
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Re: The operational status of NCC 1701-A...?

[QUOTE=granted nothing backs up this theory, but it plausible.[/QUOTE]


Well that's never stopped any of us before!
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Old August 1 2012, 03:40 AM   #201
AggieJohn
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Re: The operational status of NCC 1701-A...?

I don't think Star Trek would work like that. Its just not in the story's nature to KILL the entire crew of the Yorktown. Especially considering if the TiHo was in space dock it would have also been effected by the probe also generating problems.

Really too, if the entire crew of the Yorktown was killed that would be 600ish dead. Something tells me that Starfleet would want to honor their memories. I don't think renaming their ship and giving it to Kirk would be right. I mean I could see Kirk commanding it but one would assume that it would be the Yorktown still. There is a weird connection between Kirk and the Enterprise, as if they both HAVE to be together. Other people commanded the Enterprise and Kirk was stationed on other ships as well. I just don't see Starfleet renaming a ship just so Kirk could continue commanding a "Enterprise." Hence no matter what it seems odd they did that with the NCC-1701 A.
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Old August 1 2012, 07:47 AM   #202
Timo
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Re: The operational status of NCC 1701-A...?

Its just not in the story's nature to KILL the entire crew of the Yorktown.
Well, Nimoy once claimed that nobody died in ST4:TVH, this being part of the charm of the movie.

He was simply wrong. Millions must have perished in the extreme conditions shown. It's just something inherent in the setup, a necessary corner the writers wrote themselves into.

Something tells me that Starfleet would want to honor their memories. I don't think renaming their ship and giving it to Kirk would be right.
If so, Starfleet would be radically different from real military services. Yet, Starfleet in TOS was the archetype of military services - sometimes a caricature, even.

The 600 dead might get a memorial somewhere; possibly a fancium-forged plaque on the wall of some mess hall. There might be a commemorative coin or something. But if there also was a spare starship lying around unused, it would be put to use without much ceremony. And while Starfleet would not be interested in having another Enterprise, the PR folks of the UFP would be telling them to have one so that people would be a bit happier about the more relevant million or so dead - so this spare starship would be a pretty nifty solution.

Timo Saloniemi
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Old August 1 2012, 10:10 PM   #203
Kup1986
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Re: The operational status of NCC 1701-A...?

AggieJohn wrote: View Post
I don't think Star Trek would work like that. Its just not in the story's nature to KILL the entire crew of the Yorktown.
Are you referring to TVH or TOS? Because if you're referring to TOS, remember the Excalibur or the Intrepid? Both ships were completely wiped out, with the Excalibur left adrift. I'm sure Starfleet had to consider repairing her though, despite loss of all hands (Intrepid was destroyed if I recall correctly)
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Old August 1 2012, 10:36 PM   #204
T'Girl
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Re: The operational status of NCC 1701-A...?

blueziggy wrote: View Post
the retirement of the enterprise at the end of TUC ...
Captain's log, U.S.S. Enterprise, stardate 9529.1.

This is the final cruise of the Starship Enterprise under my command.

This ship and her history will shortly become the care of another crew.
It doesn't sound like the Enterprise is going to be retired at the end of TUC, rather Kirk is going to transfer command to another Captain, and then Kirk (and not the Enterprise) is going to retire.

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Old August 1 2012, 10:46 PM   #205
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Re: The operational status of NCC 1701-A...?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
blueziggy wrote: View Post
the retirement of the enterprise at the end of TUC ...
Captain's log, U.S.S. Enterprise, stardate 9529.1.

This is the final cruise of the Starship Enterprise under my command.

This ship and her history will shortly become the care of another crew.
It doesn't sound like the Enterprise is going to be retired at the end of TUC, rather Kirk is going to transfer command to another Captain, and then Kirk (and not the Enterprise) is going to retire.

That was always how I took those lines at the end of TUC until Generations came along with 1701-B being launched maybe a year later...
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Old August 1 2012, 11:17 PM   #206
C.E. Evans
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Re: The operational status of NCC 1701-A...?

EliyahuQeoni wrote: View Post
T'Girl wrote: View Post
blueziggy wrote: View Post
the retirement of the enterprise at the end of TUC ...
Captain's log, U.S.S. Enterprise, stardate 9529.1.

This is the final cruise of the Starship Enterprise under my command.

This ship and her history will shortly become the care of another crew.
It doesn't sound like the Enterprise is going to be retired at the end of TUC, rather Kirk is going to transfer command to another Captain, and then Kirk (and not the Enterprise) is going to retire.

That was always how I took those lines at the end of TUC until Generations came along with 1701-B being launched maybe a year later...
I saw it a bit differently. With the earlier orders by Starfleet for the Enterprise-A to immediately return to spacedock for decommissioning, Kirk's statements in his final log entry (for me) was in reference to the Enterprise-B and her crew continuing the Enterprise legacy. It could very well be that the Enterprise-B was in the final three months of her construction at the time of Star Trek VI.
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Old August 2 2012, 12:43 AM   #207
EliyahuQeoni
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Re: The operational status of NCC 1701-A...?

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
EliyahuQeoni wrote: View Post
T'Girl wrote: View Post
It doesn't sound like the Enterprise is going to be retired at the end of TUC, rather Kirk is going to transfer command to another Captain, and then Kirk (and not the Enterprise) is going to retire.

That was always how I took those lines at the end of TUC until Generations came along with 1701-B being launched maybe a year later...
I saw it a bit differently. With the earlier orders by Starfleet for the Enterprise-A to immediately return to spacedock for decommissioning, Kirk's statements in his final log entry (for me) was in reference to the Enterprise-B and her crew continuing the Enterprise legacy. It could very well be that the Enterprise-B was in the final three months of her construction at the time of Star Trek VI.
See, that's what always confused me about that last scene. On the one hand we have the fairly clear order from Starfleet Command ordering the Enterprise to spacedock to be decomissioned. Yet, in his last log entry, Kirk says "This ship and her history will shortly become the care of another crew." Which seems clear that he is talking about another crew on the 1701-A. If he'd just said "This ship's history will become the care of another crew..." I could understand, but the two statements in the same scene seem at odds with each other. I'd really like to know what TPTB were thinking with that...
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Old August 2 2012, 04:05 AM   #208
AggieJohn
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Re: The operational status of NCC 1701-A...?

EliyahuQeoni wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
EliyahuQeoni wrote: View Post

That was always how I took those lines at the end of TUC until Generations came along with 1701-B being launched maybe a year later...
I saw it a bit differently. With the earlier orders by Starfleet for the Enterprise-A to immediately return to spacedock for decommissioning, Kirk's statements in his final log entry (for me) was in reference to the Enterprise-B and her crew continuing the Enterprise legacy. It could very well be that the Enterprise-B was in the final three months of her construction at the time of Star Trek VI.
See, that's what always confused me about that last scene. On the one hand we have the fairly clear order from Starfleet Command ordering the Enterprise to spacedock to be decomissioned. Yet, in his last log entry, Kirk says "This ship and her history will shortly become the care of another crew." Which seems clear that he is talking about another crew on the 1701-A. If he'd just said "This ship's history will become the care of another crew..." I could understand, but the two statements in the same scene seem at odds with each other. I'd really like to know what TPTB were thinking with that...
Yeah but wasn't that a symbolic gesture meaning the "enterprise" not necessarily that that enterprise. I mean he also say "no one" has gone before. I saw it as a link to TNG.
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Old August 2 2012, 05:30 AM   #209
Uxi
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Re: The operational status of NCC 1701-A...?

It was meant as symbolic handoff to TNG as that was supposed to be the last TOS movie.
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Old August 2 2012, 11:58 AM   #210
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: The operational status of NCC 1701-A...?

EliyahuQeoni wrote: View Post
See, that's what always confused me about that last scene. On the one hand we have the fairly clear order from Starfleet Command ordering the Enterprise to spacedock to be decomissioned. Yet, in his last log entry, Kirk says "This ship and her history will shortly become the care of another crew." Which seems clear that he is talking about another crew on the 1701-A. If he'd just said "This ship's history will become the care of another crew..." I could understand, but the two statements in the same scene seem at odds with each other. I'd really like to know what TPTB were thinking with that...
It was an awkward Next Generation reference. Supposedly the STVI writers were so clueless about Star Trek lore (and if you've read Denny Martin Flynn's follow-up novel The Fearful Summons you'll have little trouble believing this) that they originally planned an ending where the Enterprise was handed over to Captain Picard and the Next Generation crew.

Recall also that "Yesterday's Enterprise" has already established the Klingon/Federation peace beginning 22 years prior to TNG with the sacrifice of the Enterprise-C. STVI ignored this. It also made McCoy and Uhura deeply incompetent, Kirk into a racist and Spock into a mind rapist. While also introducing a Klingon ability to fire while cloaked which they.... never bothered to try again.

IMO, STVI is a deeply flawed movie.
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