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Old July 27 2012, 05:01 PM   #76
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Re: Janeway returning to Trek Lit?

Sci wrote: View Post
Galekarens wrote: View Post
And those who would say her return would "cheapen death" (as if that sort of thing has not been done in Trek before),
The very fact that it's been done in Trek before is reason not to do it again. Death should not be a mere plot device to be overturned at the author's whims; death should be a real and permanent thing in fiction predicated on the threat of potential death.

the logical response is that her "death" was what was cheap,
I'm not sure what that means. "Cheap" in what way? Her death was depicted as a major thing, a tragic thing. It was important. It had consequences. It hurt other VOY characters. The only way I could conceive of calling a character's death "cheap" is if it has no impact and other characters don't care about it -- but that's clearly not the case with Janeway's death.

and even shameful,
She made a mistake and it cost her her life -- but then she overcame the Borg's brainwashing through sheer force of will and disrupted the cube from within, thereby saving the entire Federation. I have a hard time calling that "shameful." "Heroic" sounds like a better word to me.

and having her return would right a great wrong which was done to her, a true groundbreaker, and her many fans.
I'm sorry, but the fact that a fictional character you liked died in a story was not a wrong done to you. I liked Steve McQueen in The Sand Pebbles, but his death at the end of that movie wasn't a wrong done to me.
It is the over use of Death as a plot device that cheapens death, not the reseracterion on a loved character.

The single character in a book or movie is not the same thing as a central character in a television series that is built on the premice that these characters risk death but excape it. Janeway is such a character, the Steve McQueen character was not.

And if you read "Full Circle" you will find out that Janeway made no mistake going to the Borg Cube, but was forced to do so by an Admiral that probably was hoping she would die in the process. The Q didn't save Janeway from a simple death but rather from a murderer named Willem Batiste.
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Old July 27 2012, 05:19 PM   #77
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Re: Janeway returning to Trek Lit?

Sci wrote: View Post
I'm not sure what that means. "Cheap" in what way? Her death was depicted as a major thing, a tragic thing. It was important. It had consequences. It hurt other VOY characters. The only way I could conceive of calling a character's death "cheap" is if it has no impact and other characters don't care about it -- but that's clearly not the case with Janeway's death.
The follow-ups handled it very well. The book where it actually happened, Before Dishonor, was simply not very good, and that's what a lot of people have a problem with.
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Old July 27 2012, 06:22 PM   #78
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Re: Janeway returning to Trek Lit?

Lindley wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post
I'm not sure what that means. "Cheap" in what way? Her death was depicted as a major thing, a tragic thing. It was important. It had consequences. It hurt other VOY characters. The only way I could conceive of calling a character's death "cheap" is if it has no impact and other characters don't care about it -- but that's clearly not the case with Janeway's death.
The follow-ups handled it very well. The book where it actually happened, Before Dishonor, was simply not very good, and that's what a lot of people have a problem with.
Precisely! If Janeway's death had been restricted to Full Circle I may have been able to stomach it because of how Kirsten Beyer wrote it. But in Before Dishonor? Nope, not at all.

I'm still not a fan of how Janeway was killed, but Full Circle redeemed some of it.
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Old July 28 2012, 12:16 PM   #79
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Re: Janeway returning to Trek Lit?

I await the first reports as to whether she's actually back or if that's just the spirit of Janeway hovering over the story, inspiring and unnerving those who need it. She looks a little too atmospheric on that cover to get my hopes up.

If she's actually back in the flesh I'll buy the book, but if not my boycott continues.
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Old July 28 2012, 08:24 PM   #80
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Re: Janeway returning to Trek Lit?

There's also the little blurb from Startrek.com: Kirsten Beyer will return to the Star Trek universe this summer with a new Voyager novel entitled The Eternal Tide, and StarTrek.com has a First Look at the cover and a few details about Beyer's latest Trek adventure. In the story, the Voyager fleet continues its exploration of the Delta Quadrant, investigating the status of sectors formerly controlled by the Borg. During this critical mission, one of Starfleet's own - a respected and acclaimed officer - returns, with the fate of the galaxy hanging in the balance.

So something seems to maybe be up w/ Janeway (not just any ol' character btw), altho yes she may just come back in spirit or be Q-like, guess will see in about a month or maybe less.... (Still a nice cover w/ someone who was supposed to be GONE, but sometimes a Trek pic is just a pic, as we know).

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Old July 28 2012, 10:13 PM   #81
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Re: Janeway returning to Trek Lit?

Let's just hope for the best and that she will return, that's all there is to say (or write).
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Old July 29 2012, 12:22 AM   #82
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Re: Janeway returning to Trek Lit?

As I've posted before I don't want her back as a Q, I want her as a real flesh and blood coffee drinking woman. There are enough super beings in Trek Land and they're all a tad dull IMHO compared to real people. Ideally I'd like her back changed.. by the trauma of everything that has happened to her, though Treklit isn't too great at that kind of character arc. If she and Chak must be torn apart let it be because assimilation and death mess with your head, LOL.

I just want to see her returned and staying returned, no return just to sacrifice herself crap. I don't care if she's an admiral, a civilian, with Chak, without Chak, the main character of every VOY book to come or lost in some dusty ambassador post. Just be alive.
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Old July 29 2012, 05:32 PM   #83
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Re: Janeway returning to Trek Lit?

Lynx wrote: View Post
Let's just hope for the best and that she will return, that's all there is to say (or write).

Well, there is one other thing to say.

If Beyer brings back a hale and hearty Kathryn Janeway, then TEACAKE is honor bound to have her child.

IIRC, she promised as much last year.
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Old July 29 2012, 11:00 PM   #84
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Re: Janeway returning to Trek Lit?

My womb awaits.

To the skies!
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Old July 29 2012, 11:51 PM   #85
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Re: Janeway returning to Trek Lit?

teacake wrote: View Post
My womb awaits.

To the skies!

"To infinity... and BEYOND!" oops, wrong show.


I left something in the fanfic/fan video thread for you.
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Old July 31 2012, 10:46 PM   #86
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Re: Janeway returning to Trek Lit?

Wow. I love this thread.

I don't think I've ever seen such a literal example of judging a book by its cover.
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Old July 31 2012, 10:56 PM   #87
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Re: Janeway returning to Trek Lit?

"It's all I have."

There's a quote from one of the movies for you, I will give you a special prize if you can tell me where.
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Old August 1 2012, 05:22 AM   #88
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Re: Janeway returning to Trek Lit?

The beginning of ST V when Sybok shows up.
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Old August 1 2012, 07:34 AM   #89
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Re: Janeway returning to Trek Lit?

Yes!!! And your prize is a very special pic I came across, one I would normally post in the HiJS thread. However you may have it in this thread, all to yourself.



And to continue the discussion, for those who are ever hopeful..

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Old August 1 2012, 09:15 AM   #90
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Re: Janeway returning to Trek Lit?

Thanks for the lovely Janeway images. The tagged one is perfect for a fanfic or three. The J7 pic has me hoping for good things come the bottom end of August.
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