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Old July 26 2012, 06:40 PM   #4741
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

Beyond Antares wrote: View Post
I don't know why they went with the amnesia kiss in the original version. Even as a kid watching that, I was like "WTF?" Maybe they should have had a quick scene of him going to a lab in the Fortress of Solitude to make amnesia pills or something.
Depending on which version you see, the Canadian version of the Lester and the ABC extended version showed the destruction of the Fortress.
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Old July 26 2012, 07:23 PM   #4742
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

The only version I remember is a bunch of cops showing up at the Fortress of Solitude. I'm pretty sure that's what's on the DVD.
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Old July 26 2012, 09:10 PM   #4743
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

DWF wrote: View Post
therealsb63 wrote: View Post
DWF wrote: View Post
I had no problem with the hand in the fire scene in the second movie since Clark did love Lois and had to be truthful to her about who he was. Right after the interview in the first movie and he showed up as Clark, Lois went to go get ready to go, Clark straightened up lowered his and took off his glasses to tell Lois then and there who he was, I think that was just part of his upbringing that he be honest with his loved ones. I think Clark had falled for Lois right off the bat but it took Superman to geet to her.
Ever notice in that scene, after he flys away at the end of the interview, to when Clark knocks at the door, there is NO CUT...in the book on the making of the film, it tells how they did that intentionally, they got Reeve out of shot, out of the flying harness, into Clark's suit and recombed his hair without stopping the camera.
That's strange because I thought in the commentary Donner said there were six months between Superman taking off the roof and Clark entering the door.
Donner was likely being sarcastic. He is sarcastic (and, honestly, full of himself) throughout his commentaries
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Old July 26 2012, 09:15 PM   #4744
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

I had no problem with the hand in the fire scene in the second movie since Clark did love Lois and had to be truthful to her about who he was. Right after the interview in the first movie and he showed up as Clark, Lois went to go get ready to go, Clark straightened up lowered his and took off his glasses to tell Lois then and there who he was, I think that was just part of his upbringing that he be honest with his loved ones. I think Clark had falled for Lois right off the bat but it took Superman to geet to her.
What's great about the "hand in fire" scene is that it basically trapped Clark into telling the truth! What else could he do?!

I don't know why they went with the amnesia kiss in the original version. Even as a kid watching that, I was like "WTF?" Maybe they should have had a quick scene of him going to a lab in the Fortress of Solitude to make amnesia pills or something.
Honestly, that's what I assume happened "off camera" somewhere anyway. Not that Superman has "amnesia kiss" as one of his powers where he can selectively edit someone's brain. He simply concocted something up in the FoS, put it on his lips and the chemical was able to edit Lois' brain and memory of Clark being Superman.
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Old July 26 2012, 10:23 PM   #4745
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

Well Superman had all kinds of strange, additional powers in the comics at the time, so the "amnesia kiss" didn't really stand out or bother me all that much. Plus the Donner movies always had a slightly magical tone to them anyway.

I just wish they had included the Superman and Lois conversation that we see in the Donner cut before that scene. It was not only beautifully written, but made Lois's emotional breakdown MUCH more believable and understandable.





And yes, I'm just gonna say it-- I love the cellophane S he rips off his chest as well. Thought that scene was cool as hell when I was a kid, and I STILL think it's cool. So there.
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Old July 26 2012, 10:29 PM   #4746
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

davejames wrote: View Post
Well Superman had all kinds of strange, additional powers in the comics at the time, so the "amnesia kiss" didn't really stand out or bother me all that much.
One of his pre-Crisis powers was super hypnosis, which he sometimes used to protect his secret identity by making people forget certain incidents. The amnesia kiss is really a form of that power.
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Old July 26 2012, 10:54 PM   #4747
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

No power of Superman's is greater than his Brick-Laying Vision!

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Old July 27 2012, 12:08 AM   #4748
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
therealsb63 wrote: View Post
I had no problem with the hand in the fire scene in the second movie since Clark did love Lois and had to be truthful to her about who he was. Right after the interview in the first movie and he showed up as Clark, Lois went to go get ready to go, Clark straightened up lowered his and took off his glasses to tell Lois then and there who he was, I think that was just part of his upbringing that he be honest with his loved ones. I think Clark had falled for Lois right off the bat but it took Superman to geet to her.
What's great about the "hand in fire" scene is that it basically trapped Clark into telling the truth! What else could he do?!

I don't know why they went with the amnesia kiss in the original version. Even as a kid watching that, I was like "WTF?" Maybe they should have had a quick scene of him going to a lab in the Fortress of Solitude to make amnesia pills or something.
Honestly, that's what I assume happened "off camera" somewhere anyway. Not that Superman has "amnesia kiss" as one of his powers where he can selectively edit someone's brain. He simply concocted something up in the FoS, put it on his lips and the chemical was able to edit Lois' brain and memory of Clark being Superman.
That's weird, how did I get credited for what DWF said above??

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Old July 27 2012, 12:24 AM   #4749
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
What's great about the "hand in fire" scene is that it basically trapped Clark into telling the truth! What else could he do?!
No, it didn't trap him at all. There is no way in hell that Kal-El of Krypton is going to actually trip and put his hand in the fire by accident. Clark's clumsiness is all an act. It was even stated in dialogue that Clark pretty much did it on purpose, at least subconsciously, in order to reveal himself to Lois. So it's still a situation where the man takes the initiative and the woman just reacts. The original Donner version, the audition version, is far different: Lois is the one who forces the issue by shooting Clark and making him think she's outed him. She's the initiator there. And she's smarter than Lester's Lois because she wasn't actually convinced by Clark's deception earlier.


Honestly, that's what I assume happened "off camera" somewhere anyway. Not that Superman has "amnesia kiss" as one of his powers where he can selectively edit someone's brain. He simply concocted something up in the FoS, put it on his lips and the chemical was able to edit Lois' brain and memory of Clark being Superman.
Nope, the super-hypnotism explanation is probably the best one in terms of the Silver/Bronze-Age Superman we're talking about here. Although it's pretty creepy that he uses hypnotism to manipulate a woman's mind while kissing her.

I don't care for the "amnesia kiss" at all, though. In my preferred version, as I said in my blog review, the Donner Cut ends just after Superman flies off Lois's balcony; there's no second turning back of time and no amnesia kiss. Lois just remembers that Clark is Superman, and learns to live with that and keep his secret. And that doesn't even contradict Superman III, since Lois is hardly in that movie and does show some jealousy toward Lana at the end, something she wouldn't have done if she still thought of Clark as just an ordinary coworker. (It does contradict IV, but who cares? And it contradicts Returns, but that movie's pretense of being in the same continuity falls apart if you simply look at a calendar.)
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Old July 27 2012, 12:31 AM   #4750
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

That's weird, how did I get credited for what DWF said above??
And oddity in how I quoted, probably. Fixed.

As for Christopher....

Clark's "trip" always struck me as somewhat "accidental" perhaps in taking the bumbling Clark shtick too far. Mostly I read it this way from how he tries to hide his hand and frustratingly hits a pillow (or something else nearby.) Even if it was on "purpose" on a subconscious level then it still "trapped" Clark into revealing he was Superman because there was no way he could explain away his hand being in the fire and not getting burned.

Whatever method Superman used to erase Lois' mind it was a pretty dumb thing to do on a dramatic level. Probably one of the worst uses of the proverbial "reset button."
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Old July 27 2012, 12:57 AM   #4751
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Clark's "trip" always struck me as somewhat "accidental" perhaps in taking the bumbling Clark shtick too far. Mostly I read it this way from how he tries to hide his hand and frustratingly hits a pillow (or something else nearby.) Even if it was on "purpose" on a subconscious level then it still "trapped" Clark into revealing he was Superman because there was no way he could explain away his hand being in the fire and not getting burned.
Even so, that still makes it all about Clark vs. his own subconscious, and reduces Lois to a passive spectator. It's a more chauvinistic approach to the storyline. In the original Donner version, Lois is a stronger, smarter, more equal character.
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Old July 27 2012, 01:07 AM   #4752
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

Well Donner's leaving was a childish I think anyway, since he left because he wasn't going to have complete control over the final edit of the movie, But then after the director gives the studio his cut it's really out of their hands what the studio and producers do with it anyway.
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Old July 27 2012, 01:08 AM   #4753
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

Really, I'm no fan with how Lois was used in the Superman movies, really any of them (though she was slightly better in "Returns." I hope MoS gets her better.

I think the TV series and movie serial versions of Lois were done very well, Lois in "Lois & Clark" was very good and even Durance in "Smallville" didn't do too bad a job towards the later seasons.

Well Donner's leaving was a childish I think anyway, since he left because he wasn't going to have complete control over the final edit of the movie...
It's not unusual for a director to want the final cut of a movie to see that his full vision makes to screen. Besides, my understanding on Donner's leaving had more to do with the studio not being satisfied with his ability stay on schedule and budget with the first movie.
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Old July 27 2012, 01:21 AM   #4754
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Well Donner's leaving was a childish I think anyway, since he left because he wasn't going to have complete control over the final edit of the movie...
It's not unusual for a director to want the final cut of a movie to see that his full vision makes to screen. Besides, my understanding on Donner's leaving had more to do with the studio not being satisfied with his ability stay on schedule and budget with the first movie.
This is from the Donner Cut article at Wiki.

Tensions had existed between the Salkinds and Richard Donner throughout the almost nineteen months of filming it had taken to complete Superman and most of Superman II. The producers blamed the director for going wildly over budget and schedule. Donner claims he was never given a budget, nor a schedule. In the commentary track on the 2006 DVD release of the theatrical version of Superman II, co-producer Pierre Spengler recounts that Donner was indeed invited to return to complete the film as director, but, according to an Army Archerd/Variety magazine interview, Donner declared that if Spengler remained on the picture, Donner himself would not return to direct. In the same commentary, Ilya Salkind states the removal of Spengler was allegedly one of many demands made by Donner, who, he claimed, also wanted final cut of the film and more control over the production, demands to which the Salkinds weren't willing to agree.
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Old July 27 2012, 04:39 PM   #4755
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

Someone edited the official teasers & the comic con trailer together. Pretty nice

http://youtu.be/rdiaf_ahBLM
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