RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,890
Posts: 5,476,497
Members: 25,050
Currently online: 562
Newest member: aloraptor

TrekToday headlines

Klingon Bloodwine To Debut
By: T'Bonz on Nov 25

Trek Actors In War Of The Worlds Fundraiser
By: T'Bonz on Nov 25

Star Trek: The Next Generation Gag Reel Tease
By: T'Bonz on Nov 24

Shatner In Haven
By: T'Bonz on Nov 24

Retro Review: Covenant
By: Michelle on Nov 22

Two Official Starships Collection Previews
By: T'Bonz on Nov 21

Saldana: Women Issues In Hollywood
By: T'Bonz on Nov 21

Shatner Book Kickstarter
By: T'Bonz on Nov 20

Trek Original Series Slippers
By: T'Bonz on Nov 19

Hemsworth Is Sexiest Man Alive
By: T'Bonz on Nov 19


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy

Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 25 2012, 10:07 PM   #4726
CorporalClegg
Admiral
 
CorporalClegg's Avatar
 
Location: Land of Enchantment
Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: View Post
Of course, there's always this! LOL One of the best Superman scenes ever!
I forgot about that one.

I've always thought Delany would have made an excellent live action Lois.

Heck she still would. She's still freakin gorgeous and looks 10+ years younger than she is.

I think I would have even preferred her for EDLois's mom on Smallville over Hatcher.

In any case, I haven't seen STAS in at least a decade. I should try and find a DVD. Thanks for the reminder.
__________________
Konnichi wa!
CorporalClegg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 25 2012, 10:28 PM   #4727
JarodRussell
Vice Admiral
 
JarodRussell's Avatar
 
Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

The Lensman wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
But she wasn't "attempting suicide." By definition, attempting suicide means taking an action that you expect will result in your probable or certain death. Lois was so confident of her conclusion that Clark was Superman -- which, again, was absolutely correct -- that she did not consider herself to be in any significant danger. She considered the risk of death to be low enough that it was worth taking that risk to achieve her goal. Which, as a survey of Lois Lane's career on screen and page will demonstrate, is something she does as a matter of routine.

Sure, as I said, she miscalculated about Clark's ingenuity at hiding his identity -- but she did not miscalculate about the level of danger she was in by jumping out that window, namely, none.
Seriously, no. Attempting to kill yourself to prove a theory is incredibly insane.
Except she wasn't "attempting to kill herself". She was in as much danger as a person jumping into a giant inflatable cushion, and she knew that.
She did not know anything. She jumps, and Clark turns out to be Clark, and she's dead.

She is insane.
JarodRussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26 2012, 01:40 AM   #4728
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
I've always thought Delany would have made an excellent live action Lois.

Heck she still would. She's still freakin gorgeous and looks 10+ years younger than she is.
She seems to be playing 10+ years younger than she is on Body of Proof, considering that her mother on that series is played by Joanna Cassidy, who's only a decade her senior.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is online now   Reply With Quote
Old July 26 2012, 01:53 AM   #4729
Trekker4747
Trekker4747
 
Trekker4747's Avatar
 
Location: Kansas City
Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

So, didn't Clark manage to save Lois without revealing himself to be Superman and without even using the Superman persona? (I seem to recall him using super breath or something to manipulate an awning... or something.)

Wouldn't this pretty much traumatize Lois? I mean it should hit her like a giant 1000-Ton ACME anvil that she just nearly died on a hunch (even a hunch she was 100% correct on both in reality and in her mind) and only "saved" by dumb luck.

I agree SMIII has certain Silver Age charms to it but at times tries way too hard (again, slapstick opening credits crawl) and pretty much any scene involving Richard Pryor (an amazingly, fabulously funny guy but he just wasn't in this movie and used way too much.)

I really look forward to this new take on Superman in theaters... A year from now.
__________________
Just because it's futuristic doesn't mean it's practical.
Trekker4747 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26 2012, 02:46 AM   #4730
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
So, didn't Clark manage to save Lois without revealing himself to be Superman and without even using the Superman persona? (I seem to recall him using super breath or something to manipulate an awning... or something.)

Wouldn't this pretty much traumatize Lois? I mean it should hit her like a giant 1000-Ton ACME anvil that she just nearly died on a hunch (even a hunch she was 100% correct on both in reality and in her mind) and only "saved" by dumb luck.
Don't forget what happened afterward. Sure, in the Lester version, Lois was completely fooled when Clark didn't turn into Superman to save her at Niagara falls. But in the Donner version, the one we're talking about, the one where she jumped out the window, she wasn't fooled for long. She may have failed to prove Clark was Superman, but she still suspected that he was, and in the great scene that unfortunately was only ever filmed in the actors' auditions (footage of which was incorporated into the Donner Cut), she forced Clark to reveal himself by shooting him (with blanks, which he really should've noticed).

So she wouldn't have been traumatized, because she never really believed she'd been wrong. All the window incident proved to her was that she needed a better plan to smoke Superman out. Which is why Donner Cut Lois is immensely more awesome than the gullible, unperceptive Lois of the Lester version.


I agree SMIII has certain Silver Age charms to it but at times tries way too hard (again, slapstick opening credits crawl) and pretty much any scene involving Richard Pryor (an amazingly, fabulously funny guy but he just wasn't in this movie and used way too much.)
Well, the opening slapstick sequence is trying too hard, yes, but it's superbly executed. Lester was a master of intricate detail, keeping a whole bunch of balls in the air and keeping track of every one of them. You see that all through the movie, with all the subtle background details and the plot points that are set up in one scene and paid off many scenes later. In terms of sheer structural cohesiveness, it has all the other Reeve films beat.

And on the DVD I rented, most of the deleted scenes were Pryor footage. So he was actually used a lot less in the final cut than he could've been.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is online now   Reply With Quote
Old July 26 2012, 02:57 AM   #4731
CorporalCaptain
Admiral
 
CorporalCaptain's Avatar
 
Location: Kentucky
Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

Christopher wrote: View Post
All the window incident proved to her was that she needed a better plan to smoke Superman out. Which is why Donner Cut Lois is immensely more awesome than the gullible, unperceptive Lois of the Lester version.
Actually, all it proves is that we're watching a comic-book movie teetering on the edge of being populated entirely by one-dimensional caricatures.

As improbable as it is from the standpoint of Superman's powers, at least the scene where she shoots Clark with blanks has the virtue of not portraying her as an idiot in need of a vacation in a psyche ward.
__________________
John
CorporalCaptain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26 2012, 03:07 AM   #4732
Trekker4747
Trekker4747
 
Trekker4747's Avatar
 
Location: Kansas City
Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

Don't forget what happened afterward. Sure, in the Lester version, Lois was completely fooled when Clark didn't turn into Superman to save her at Niagara falls. But in the Donner version, the one we're talking about, the one where she jumped out the window, she wasn't fooled for long. She may have failed to prove Clark was Superman, but she still suspected that he was, and in the great scene that unfortunately was only ever filmed in the actors' auditions (footage of which was incorporated into the Donner Cut), she forced Clark to reveal himself by shooting him (with blanks, which he really should've noticed).
Ah! Okay, I'm clearer on what we're talking about, I recall those events in the Donner version.

And, yeah, Clark should have noticed he was shot-at with blanks, given that nothing would have hit him. Though maybe even if the gun had been filled with bullets he wouldn't have felt them as the impact they'd cause are too well below his threshold of feeling them. It'd be like a human getting "shot" with a speck of dust. We're so much more powerful and stronger in comparison it's not enough to notice it.

So Lois fires the blanks and Superman says, "Oh shit! She's shooting me! I don't normally feel bullets... Uh... act shot!"
__________________
Just because it's futuristic doesn't mean it's practical.

Last edited by Trekker4747; July 26 2012 at 03:27 PM.
Trekker4747 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26 2012, 03:40 AM   #4733
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

^I was thinking more that Superman's vision and perceptual speed would allow him to see bullets in flight -- or in the case of blanks, the lack thereof. Or that he could tell the difference between blanks and real bullets by the sound, the smell, some cue that we would miss. Or that he would use x-ray vision on the gun the moment he saw it and determine whether it was loaded and with what.

The thing is, film and TV generally only show Superman using his super-senses at specific moments, as if he has to make a conscious effort to activate them, because it's hard in those media to do what you can do in comics and particularly in prose: to acknowledge that his super-senses are engaged at every moment and that he thinks and processes input at superhuman speed, so he can size up a situation in milliseconds.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is online now   Reply With Quote
Old July 26 2012, 07:43 AM   #4734
sojourner
Admiral
 
sojourner's Avatar
 
Location: I'm at WKRP
Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

^Same issue with the Flash though. If Flash was portrayed as always processing his senses at superspeed it would be hard to write real threats for him. He technically is fast enough to respond to anything nearly instantaneously.
__________________
Baby, you and me were never meant to be, just maybe think of me once in a while...
sojourner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26 2012, 03:19 PM   #4735
Admiral Buzzkill
Fleet Admiral
 
Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
All the window incident proved to her was that she needed a better plan to smoke Superman out. Which is why Donner Cut Lois is immensely more awesome than the gullible, unperceptive Lois of the Lester version.
Actually, all it proves is that we're watching a comic-book movie teetering on the edge of being populated entirely by one-dimensional caricatures.
Absolutely Right(TM).

The filmmakers were taking their cues from decades of one of the most immature, dysfunctional supposed "romances" in popular fiction - Superman and Lois Lane in the comic books.

If nothing else, Donner seems to have finally, permanently introduced the idea of some real mutual affection into the Lois-and-Clark relationship.
Admiral Buzzkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26 2012, 03:36 PM   #4736
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

sojourner wrote: View Post
^Same issue with the Flash though. If Flash was portrayed as always processing his senses at superspeed it would be hard to write real threats for him. He technically is fast enough to respond to anything nearly instantaneously.
But my point is, he more often is portrayed that way in comics than in film. I believe it's actually been used rather well as a plot/character point in the recent New 52 Flash series from Francis Manapul. You can portray something like that in comics because comics is a series of freeze-frames, so you can concentrate on a single moment and elaborate on its details. And you can portray it in prose because you can get into a character's viewpoint and describe in detail how they perceive an event, even if it takes a split second. Film/TV is different; although it is possible to go into super-slo-mo and show such a reaction, it has to be a special case, an exception to the normal flow of real-time storytelling -- and it generally takes a lot more money to shoot if it's in live action. So it isn't done as routinely, and instead of a character who's always perceiving things so keenly or swiftly, you get a Superman or Flash who's portrayed as having pretty much normal senses and reaction times unless he makes a specific effort to do otherwise.

Well, actually Smallville did a pretty good job using "bullet time" effects to show how Clark perceived events at superspeed. Earlier Superman adaptations, not so much.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 11/16/14 including annotations for "The Caress of a Butterfly's Wing" and overview for DTI: The Collectors

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is online now   Reply With Quote
Old July 26 2012, 04:43 PM   #4737
therealsb63
Lieutenant
 
therealsb63's Avatar
 
Location: Southern CT, USA
Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

DWF wrote: View Post
I had no problem with the hand in the fire scene in the second movie since Clark did love Lois and had to be truthful to her about who he was. Right after the interview in the first movie and he showed up as Clark, Lois went to go get ready to go, Clark straightened up lowered his and took off his glasses to tell Lois then and there who he was, I think that was just part of his upbringing that he be honest with his loved ones. I think Clark had falled for Lois right off the bat but it took Superman to geet to her.
Ever notice in that scene, after he flys away at the end of the interview, to when Clark knocks at the door, there is NO CUT...in the book on the making of the film, it tells how they did that intentionally, they got Reeve out of shot, out of the flying harness, into Clark's suit and recombed his hair without stopping the camera.
__________________
Never keep a Vulcan waiting...I am the real starbase63...accept no substitutes.
therealsb63 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26 2012, 05:01 PM   #4738
DWF
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

therealsb63 wrote: View Post
DWF wrote: View Post
I had no problem with the hand in the fire scene in the second movie since Clark did love Lois and had to be truthful to her about who he was. Right after the interview in the first movie and he showed up as Clark, Lois went to go get ready to go, Clark straightened up lowered his and took off his glasses to tell Lois then and there who he was, I think that was just part of his upbringing that he be honest with his loved ones. I think Clark had falled for Lois right off the bat but it took Superman to geet to her.
Ever notice in that scene, after he flys away at the end of the interview, to when Clark knocks at the door, there is NO CUT...in the book on the making of the film, it tells how they did that intentionally, they got Reeve out of shot, out of the flying harness, into Clark's suit and recombed his hair without stopping the camera.
That's strange because I thought in the commentary Donner said there were six months between Superman taking off the roof and Clark entering the door.
__________________
The greatest science fiction series of all time is
Doctor Who! And I'll take you all on, one-by-one
or all in a bunch to back it up!"
--- Harlan Ellison, from his introduction
to the PINNACLE series of Doctor Who books
DWF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26 2012, 05:47 PM   #4739
DWF
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

Christopher wrote: View Post
Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
So, didn't Clark manage to save Lois without revealing himself to be Superman and without even using the Superman persona? (I seem to recall him using super breath or something to manipulate an awning... or something.)

Wouldn't this pretty much traumatize Lois? I mean it should hit her like a giant 1000-Ton ACME anvil that she just nearly died on a hunch (even a hunch she was 100% correct on both in reality and in her mind) and only "saved" by dumb luck.
Don't forget what happened afterward. Sure, in the Lester version, Lois was completely fooled when Clark didn't turn into Superman to save her at Niagara falls. But in the Donner version, the one we're talking about, the one where she jumped out the window, she wasn't fooled for long. She may have failed to prove Clark was Superman, but she still suspected that he was, and in the great scene that unfortunately was only ever filmed in the actors' auditions (footage of which was incorporated into the Donner Cut), she forced Clark to reveal himself by shooting him (with blanks, which he really should've noticed).
In the end whether Clark thrusts his hand in the fire or allows himself to shot even by blanks he still subconsciously let Lois in on his secret. And by shooting him Lois didn't have to risk her own life, which she did in both versions. If the point of Lois learning his secret is meant to led them to bed and Clark losing his powers then it all feels rather pointless, since the movie ends with a reset button and in the Donner version everything is reset and the Kyrtonian criminals are put back to the Phantom Zone.
__________________
The greatest science fiction series of all time is
Doctor Who! And I'll take you all on, one-by-one
or all in a bunch to back it up!"
--- Harlan Ellison, from his introduction
to the PINNACLE series of Doctor Who books
DWF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26 2012, 06:34 PM   #4740
Agenda
Fleet Captain
 
Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

I don't know why they went with the amnesia kiss in the original version. Even as a kid watching that, I was like "WTF?" Maybe they should have had a quick scene of him going to a lab in the Fortress of Solitude to make amnesia pills or something.
Agenda is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
christopher nolan, man of steel, superman, zack snyder

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:39 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.