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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate Fallen Gods.
Outstanding 1 1.15%
Above Average 13 14.94%
Average 40 45.98%
Below Average 23 26.44%
Poor 10 11.49%
Voters: 87. You may not vote on this poll

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Old July 24 2012, 05:54 PM   #31
MatthiasRussell
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

^I love the series, too. i don't think any of us who have said we aren't buying this book have said we don't love Titan.

Titan is a great series. Titan and Voyager are the series carrying the tradition of exploration while many other books have dealt with political issues and keeping the peace.

The disfavor is aimed at a writer, NOT titan.
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Old July 24 2012, 06:35 PM   #32
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Poncho Anderson wrote: View Post
I must be over the minority but I like the series. What gets me is the long wait between books. I get that with the Typhon Pact series taking center stage, other books of the 24th century will have to be put on hold but gosh, 33 freaking months? Come on, I'm dying here.
Despite how it was labeled, Typhon Pact: Seize the Fire is a full-fledged Titan novel. It's really more a Titan novel than a Typhon Pact novel, because the fact that the Gorn are members of the Pact is only a peripheral detail that gets mentioned a few times but has very little impact on the story.

Really, that was the idea of the first few TP books -- to be in the vein of old crossovers like Invasion! or Section 31, a group of standalone adventures in the various series that were loosely linked by a common element or theme. One is unambiguously TTN, one novel (and one e-novella) is unambiguously TNG, one is unambiguously DS9, and only one is kind of a hybrid that's hard to pin down. It's only the more recent Typhon Pact books that are full-on multi-series crossovers.

And it's not like anything has been "put on hold" either. Since the Pact was introduced in A Singular Destiny, we've had plenty of 24th-century novels that weren't part of that series, including three VGR novels (with a fourth upcoming), two TNG novels (Losing the Peace and Indistinguishable from Magic), Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions, three non-TP-labeled TTN novels (counting the new one), two DTI novels, and a couple of New Frontier novels. Plus there's a whole TNG trilogy coming up soon.

So I don't get where this perception comes from that the Typhon Pact has monopolized the 24th-century novels. Since the debut of the Pact, and counting upcoming 2012 books, non-TP 24th-century books have outnumbered TP-related books by roughly 2 to 1.
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Old July 24 2012, 06:42 PM   #33
Sho
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

FWIW, I did try to leave room for this in my opening blurb by mentioning the 20-months-ago Seize the Fire after the 33-months-ago Synthesis, but not having read the books yet I was unsure myself about where the Pact ends and the Titan begins, so to speak, that's why I didn't confidently frame it that way. And I guess that's ultimately the takeaway - for those who don't have the benefit of reading the long explanation here or some other substitute research, the branding is open to misinterpretation.

Now, this is all a bit moot to discuss as long as the books under the TP banner sell well, which I presume they do, making it one of the reasons it keeps being used along with other editorial concerns. I'm still happy they're keeping the individual brands alive, too, though, just to not have all the eggs in one basket, marketing-wise.
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Old July 24 2012, 08:05 PM   #34
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Christopher wrote: View Post
Poncho Anderson wrote: View Post
I must be over the minority but I like the series. What gets me is the long wait between books. I get that with the Typhon Pact series taking center stage, other books of the 24th century will have to be put on hold but gosh, 33 freaking months? Come on, I'm dying here.
Despite how it was labeled, Typhon Pact: Seize the Fire is a full-fledged Titan novel. It's really more a Titan novel than a Typhon Pact novel, because the fact that the Gorn are members of the Pact is only a peripheral detail that gets mentioned a few times but has very little impact on the story.

Really, that was the idea of the first few TP books -- to be in the vein of old crossovers like Invasion! or Section 31, a group of standalone adventures in the various series that were loosely linked by a common element or theme. One is unambiguously TTN, one novel (and one e-novella) is unambiguously TNG, one is unambiguously DS9, and only one is kind of a hybrid that's hard to pin down. It's only the more recent Typhon Pact books that are full-on multi-series crossovers.

And it's not like anything has been "put on hold" either. Since the Pact was introduced in A Singular Destiny, we've had plenty of 24th-century novels that weren't part of that series, including three VGR novels (with a fourth upcoming), two TNG novels (Losing the Peace and Indistinguishable from Magic), Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions, three non-TP-labeled TTN novels (counting the new one), two DTI novels, and a couple of New Frontier novels. Plus there's a whole TNG trilogy coming up soon.

So I don't get where this perception comes from that the Typhon Pact has monopolized the 24th-century novels. Since the debut of the Pact, and counting upcoming 2012 books, non-TP 24th-century books have outnumbered TP-related books by roughly 2 to 1.
Christopher, I really admire your patience. I have seen you explaining this so clearly so many times on the forum, and still people don't seem to get it. The fact that you remain so calm, is admirable.

Perhaps you could make a topic explaining all this, then have the mods close it and make it a sticky. This way, you don't have to re-explain something that's so simple every single time, and only copy and paste the link to the sticky.
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Old July 25 2012, 02:38 AM   #35
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Zman1 wrote: View Post
Why all the hate? I liked the Romulan war books, and Seize the Fire, the STO book was good too not great but good. Constructive criticism is one thing but the catcalls from the peanut gallery is another. Especially the ones who admit to not having read this most recent book.

It's true Martin and Mangels write better together because their skills complement each other. Complaining that separately their writing isn't quite as good is like complaining that the Olympic team sets a higher standard than the professional teams the players are gotten from.
I don't think it was the reaction was that bad. Most of the posters seemed to have fairly clear criticisms about Martin. It's not like they were all calling him an idiot who can't write or something else along those lines.
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Old July 25 2012, 03:44 AM   #36
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Christopher wrote: View Post
Really, that was the idea of the first few TP books -- to be in the vein of old crossovers like Invasion! or Section 31, a group of standalone adventures in the various series that were loosely linked by a common element or theme. One is unambiguously TTN, one novel (and one e-novella) is unambiguously TNG, one is unambiguously DS9, and only one is kind of a hybrid that's hard to pin down. It's only the more recent Typhon Pact books that are full-on multi-series crossovers.
Even there, I would argue that Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn are really Deep Space Nine novels. Yeah, the Enterprise crew appears, but they're mostly guest stars -- the Deep Space 9 crew is the center around which those novels pivot.
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Old July 25 2012, 03:47 AM   #37
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

^Yeah, good point. I initially had PoN/RtD listed in my personal chronology as not series-specific beyond Typhon Pact, but after finishing the duology, I realized it worked better to categorize the whole thing as DS9. I even retroactively moved Rough Beasts of Empire there, since the three books pretty much form a trilogy. It's not a perfect fit, but a reasonable one.
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Old July 25 2012, 03:55 AM   #38
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Christopher wrote: View Post
^Yeah, good point. I initially had PoN/RtD listed in my personal chronology as not series-specific beyond Typhon Pact, but after finishing the duology, I realized it worked better to categorize the whole thing as DS9. I even retroactively moved Rough Beasts of Empire there, since the three books pretty much form a trilogy. It's not a perfect fit, but a reasonable one.
Rough Beasts of Empire is a tough one to classify. Even given that Plagues of Night/Raise the Dawn were essentially DSN novels, I find myself thinking that Spock was the pivot around which the main action of Rough Beasts turned, with Sisko really as a supporting character. So I'm inclined to classify it as either a TOS/DSN crossover, or a TOS novel with a DSN subplot.
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Old July 25 2012, 04:15 AM   #39
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I wouldn't say that just including Spock makes something a TOS novel. After all, adding Worf to DS9 didn't make it TNG. And "Unification" was a TNG episode, not a TOS episode. TOS is the whole situation and cast, not just one member of it. Not to mention that Spock's ambassadorial role and involvement with Romulus are plot threads arising from TNG, so if anything, RBoE owes more to TNG than to TOS.

So I wouldn't call it a DS9/TOS novel; I'd call it a DS9/Ambassador Spock novel.
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Old July 25 2012, 06:54 AM   #40
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

When Titan started I loved it. Exploration in Star Trek, what a concept! The first two books were tying up loose ends from a number of sources but then it was full on Strange New Worlds. Boo-yah!

Then somebody decided that Michael Martin should write Titan and things went downhill fast. Titan went from must read to wtf? to sorry, no. Until somebody who can actually write a compelling exploration story takes over the series Titan is off my list.

There's very few authors who's names on the cover guarantees that I won't buy it. Diane Carey is one. Michael Martin is now another.
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Old July 25 2012, 08:03 AM   #41
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

The book should be out by Thursday night or Friday depending on your Barnes & Noble stores of couurse. Usually mine has it out by Thursday evening. I'm really hoping Pava stays aboard Titan since I have always liked her character since she was in the Starfleet Academy comics before Titan was created. I still think her character can be seen more.
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Old July 25 2012, 06:59 PM   #42
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I plan on getting this book to find out what's happening with the Andorians and since I like the Titan series I'm curious about the mystery mentioned in the official synopsis for this book..I want to read the Titan latest novel.Even if I didn't care for Sieze the fire last year.I want to know what's going on with the storylines with Titan's crewmembers.
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Old July 26 2012, 03:41 AM   #43
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

RPJOB wrote: View Post
When Titan started I loved it. Exploration in Star Trek, what a concept! The first two books were tying up loose ends from a number of sources but then it was full on Strange New Worlds. Boo-yah!

Then somebody decided that Michael Martin should write Titan and things went downhill fast. Titan went from must read to wtf? to sorry, no. Until somebody who can actually write a compelling exploration story takes over the series Titan is off my list.
Mangels and Martin co-wrote the first two books in the series, but of the subsequent novels only the most recent was written by Martin. Mack, Bennett, Swallow and Thorne have written the others.
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Old July 26 2012, 04:00 AM   #44
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

^ Mr. Mack hasn't written a Titan novel yet, AFAIK.
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Old July 26 2012, 04:05 AM   #45
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Sho wrote: View Post
^ Mr. Mack hasn't written a Titan novel yet, AFAIK.
The Destiny trilogy was an integral part of the Titan series as well as the TNG series.
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