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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate Fallen Gods.
Outstanding 1 1.15%
Above Average 13 14.94%
Average 40 45.98%
Below Average 23 26.44%
Poor 10 11.49%
Voters: 87. You may not vote on this poll

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Old July 23 2012, 08:51 PM   #16
MatthiasRussell
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Thrawn wrote: View Post
Excessively pedantic prose; an obsession with finding explanations to continuity "problems" that no one actually had problems with; characters that all talk the same and have shallow motivations; plot holes; a tendency to overtly politicize.
I agree, especially with "excessively pedantic prose."

His novels tend to ramble on with long gaps between any action or drama which leaves me thinkning, "Okay, get on with it already!"

Then there is an overuse of alien languages that makes it difficult to understand what is being said or breaks up the scene in your head as you figure out what is being said.
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Old July 23 2012, 08:57 PM   #17
Sho
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Hm, I'm of the type who tends toward giving people the benefit of the doubt, and a lot of those criticisms seem of the type "negatively impacts flow and makes reading a bit labor-intensive, but could nonetheless be interesting". E.g. I get the alien languages complaint, but if he's doing interesting stuff with it ... sometimes rough edges can be in the pro column.
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Old July 23 2012, 09:38 PM   #18
TerraUnam
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Martin just isn't a character writer, he's a plot writer. He'd be better if he did character better; it's his Achilles' Heel.
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Old July 23 2012, 10:09 PM   #19
MatthiasRussell
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Sho, I wouldn't tell you NOT to pick up this book. I agree that you shouldn't judge an author based upon one book. It took me several before I decided I've had enough and I enjoyed the stuff he coauthored with Andy Mangels even though I even found those a bit laboritous.

If you haven't read much of his stuff, keep reading and judge for yourself. There are some who really enjoy his works.
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Old July 23 2012, 10:13 PM   #20
Sho
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Don't worry, I realize that - after all, I specifically asked you guys to tell me more about why you don't like his books. Also, I didn't mean to suggest that any of you had rushed to judgement, either.

I still plan to read the Titan series and since I'm somewhat of a completionist in these things, I won't be skipping Martin's works even if I turn out not to like them either. I'm just already trying to prepare myself to find whatever saving graces I can in them .
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Old July 23 2012, 10:22 PM   #21
Thrawn
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Fair enough

It's not just a vocal minority though; the three books that Martin authored by himself are three of the bottom four on your list of review threads.
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Old July 24 2012, 12:01 AM   #22
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Thrawn wrote: View Post
Excessively pedantic prose; an obsession with finding explanations to continuity "problems" that no one actually had problems with; characters that all talk the same and have shallow motivations; plot holes; a tendency to overtly politicize.
My biggest problem with Martin's writing is shall motivations and very stilted, unnatural dialogue.
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Old July 24 2012, 02:45 AM   #23
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Why all the hate? I liked the Romulan war books, and Seize the Fire, the STO book was good too not great but good. Constructive criticism is one thing but the catcalls from the peanut gallery is another. Especially the ones who admit to not having read this most recent book.

It's true Martin and Mangels write better together because their skills complement each other. Complaining that separately their writing isn't quite as good is like complaining that the Olympic team sets a higher standard than the professional teams the players are gotten from.
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Old July 24 2012, 02:49 AM   #24
Sho
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

For the record though, as far as I can see nobody who posted criticism mentioned not having read Seize the Fire.
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Old July 24 2012, 03:45 AM   #25
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Zman1 wrote: View Post
Why all the hate? I liked the Romulan war books, and Seize the Fire, the STO book was good too not great but good. Constructive criticism is one thing but the catcalls from the peanut gallery is another. Especially the ones who admit to not having read this most recent book.

It's true Martin and Mangels write better together because their skills complement each other. Complaining that separately their writing isn't quite as good is like complaining that the Olympic team sets a higher standard than the professional teams the players are gotten from.
I've definitely read the most recent book, and I think this criticism is absolutely fair. I'm allowed to complain if I want to; Andy stopped writing with him, and his books got less good. Worse than basically any of the rest of them for the last couple years. Pointing that out is legitimate.

Especially since it was, it appears, Michael's choice to stop writing with Andy. Andy has been very diplomatic talking about it a couple times, but I get the feeling that the ending of that partnership was completely Michael and Andy was as surprised as anyone else.
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Old July 24 2012, 05:06 AM   #26
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

To be honest Seize the Fire was the worst of the Typhon Pact books. It's one reason I won't be buying this one....
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Old July 24 2012, 11:00 AM   #27
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Sho wrote: View Post
That said, I'm wondering why we already have two votes in now. Did some of you get your hands on the book already?
I'd wager those two voted on Mr. Martin's reputation, not on the actual book itself, which isn't a very nice thing to do.

If I'm wrong please do write a short review explaining the rating for which you voted.
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Old July 24 2012, 03:37 PM   #28
JoeZhang
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Zman1 wrote: View Post
Why all the hate? I liked the Romulan war books, and Seize the Fire, the STO book was good too not great but good. Constructive criticism is one thing but the catcalls from the peanut gallery is another. Especially the ones who admit to not having read this most recent book.

It's true Martin and Mangels write better together because their skills complement each other. Complaining that separately their writing isn't quite as good is like complaining that the Olympic team sets a higher standard than the professional teams the players are gotten from.
I read half of his most recent book, it was terrible.
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Old July 24 2012, 03:42 PM   #29
MatthiasRussell
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Zman1 wrote: View Post
Why all the hate? I liked the Romulan war books, and Seize the Fire, the STO book was good too not great but good. Constructive criticism is one thing but the catcalls from the peanut gallery is another. Especially the ones who admit to not having read this most recent book.
And you are entitled to your opinion just as we are entitled to ours. However, as Thrawn pointed out, Martin's books have been rated comparitively low here. At Amazon.com, his books aren't well reviewed either.

Catcalls from the peanut gallery? Are we mocking or trying to provoke Mr Martin? No. We've read his books and made our judgements based upon past experience.

I believe I've read all of Martin's trek works, including Seize the Fire. And I had forgotten about the STO book which was just plain terrible. However, I don't even judge Martin by that one because what I hated most about it was the way it was formatted- as series of interviews. Since I believe that was an editorial decision, I don't critize him for that.

I do think Martin conceives very interesting plots and has great love for Star Trek. However, I have witnessed his execution consistantly fail my expectations and deliver a underwhelming reading experience while authors whose works I love like David Mack and Peter David have always exceeded my expectations to the point I will buy a book authored by them only on the merits of their name on the cover. Other authors like David R George and Christopher Bennett usually write books I love but have delivered a few books I didn't enjoy so based upon my enjoying them most of the time, I don't hesitate to pick up their latest book.
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Old July 24 2012, 04:52 PM   #30
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Re: TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I must be over the minority but I like the series. What gets me is the long wait between books. I get that with the Typhon Pact series taking center stage, other books of the 24th century will have to be put on hold but gosh, 33 freaking months? Come on, I'm dying here. I'm glad Titan and Voyager have books coming back-to-back.

I haven't read the book as it hasn't come yet but as I'm all caught up on the 24th literature, when it does arrive, I will jump right in. I'm hopeful the novel will keep up the winning streak of books set in the TNG era.
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