TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

[TheGodBen]

Seven of Five wrote:

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I was going to come in and try and start something, but my sister's just had a baby today and I'm far too happy.

I'm an uncle for the first time!

Gods, don't remind me. My sister is pregnant too and people keep on making rice jokes. I was literally told about it by being handed a packet of Uncle Ben's microwavable rice.

Congratulations though. Not that you did anything.

[Sykonee]

TheGodBen wrote:

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I decided that the Gul in Playing God was probably Evek because it was the same actor in the same position around the same time. Sure, he was named on TNG, but he appeared on DS9 first. Besides, didn't Trials and Tribble-ations give you a big enough thrill when you saw all those numbers next to your name?

Yes, it did, even more so when it overtook every other DS9 counter. But I want to have it built ever larger, more grand than any other counter you've done.

To be more bloodied than Archer Abuse.
To be more vaporized than Captain Redshirt.
To be more inexhaustible than VOY torpedoes.
To be more Bakula than Scott Bakula!

[Seven of Five]

TheGodBen wrote:

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Gods, don't remind me. My sister is pregnant too and people keep on making rice jokes. I was literally told about it by being handed a packet of Uncle Ben's microwavable rice.

Sorry I know you don't really want me laughing at your emotional torment but there you go!

And to be fair I can totally understand it getting annoying.

Congratulations though. Not that you did anything.

Thanks. Although I haven't dropped him yet, which is definitely something.

[Jeff O'Connor]

TheGodBen wrote:

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TNG Recut is excellent, the best thing is that it has continuity and story arcs that get more and more intricate (and insane) as it develops. That episode was part of an arc that started when Picard insulted Spot.

Damn, this is glorious. I'm up to 50 now. No plans to stop.

...

Ever.

[Ln X]

Jeff O'Connor wrote:

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Damn, this is glorious. I'm up to 50 now. No plans to stop.

...

Ever.

It only gets madder...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEsb3...A2CFCB55EF0AAB

This one is insane!

[Seven of Five]

Damn you all!

(I'm only up to four as this weekend is mega busy. Just wait till I'm looking to procrastinate...)

[TheGodBen]

Seven of Five wrote:

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Sorry I know you don't really want me laughing at your emotional torment but there you go!

Don't worry about it, if the situation was reversed I'd laugh at you.

Jeff O'Connor wrote:

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Damn, this is glorious. I'm up to 50 now. No plans to stop.

...

Ever.

Sadly, TNG Recut ends at episode 200 (All Bad Things), and it manages to be surprisingly emotional considering it was a series about genocidal, deviant cowards.


The Darkness and the Light (****)

I think I have it figured out. In this episode, Sisko wears his uniform and commbadge wrong, then correctly, then wrong, then correctly. Most people think that this was a wardrobe malfunction, but it's not, it's actually a brilliant move by Avery Brooks that furthers the development of his character. See, on the days when Sisko dresses himself he gets it wrong, but on the days when Kassidy dresses him she gets it right. Sisko's flipping between wearing his uniform right and wearing it wrong was Avery Brooks' way of letting the audience know that he and Kassidy have started sleeping together again, and for the rest of the series Sisko is getting some action regularly. It's really quite brilliant.

This episode is all about the confrontation between Kira and Prin. Stylistically, it's wonderful, the pregnant woman being tortured by the disfigured man with great use of light and shadow. And it deals with some very heavy issues with no easy answers to them, just differing points of view. I know that there's some controversy about Kira's claim in that scene that there were no innocent Cardassians on Bajor, because episodes like Duet had given her a new perspective on such issues, but I completely buy that in that moment she believed what she said. Some part of Kira does believe that, she couldn't have lived through the occupation without some of those dark thoughts, but in normal circumstances her ability to reason will overrule such thinking. But now she's pregnant, her back hurts, people have been treating her as a delicate specimen for months, and some crazy guy has been murdering her oldest friends. So yeah, I can buy that she doesn't have time for reason or feel-good peacenik sentiments in that moment, she just wants to hurt and kill the guy that has her trapped in a chair.

My main issue with the episode is that Prin is a butler that has somehow become a master assassin whose skills rival those of Garak. I can't see Stevens from The Remains of the Day becoming such an expert killer even if half his face was blown off, it's a fairly big leap. Prin manages to plant a micro-explosive on a Vedek without him knowing, place a transport inhibitor on a woman in such a way that advanced Federation technology couldn't detect it, and blow up a section of one of the most guarded strategic space stations in the galaxy. Where did he learn all this stuff, the Cardassian Open University? Actually, knowing Cardassians, that's not as absurd as it first sounds...

[Ln X]

TheGodBen wrote:

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Sadly, TNG Recut ends at episode 200 (All Bad Things), and it manages to be surprisingly emotional considering it was a series about genocidal, deviant cowards.

Not all the time they were deviants. I think it was recut 61 where Picard first expressed human emotions blubbering away over the fate of this robot character while watching some video! It is totally OTT!

I agree with your assessment TheGodBen about Kira telling Prim all Cardassians were 'guilty' in the occupation. I mean she is totally pissed off and in those kind of situations people say some very ugly things. The way I see it there is a monster inside of Kira, it came out many times during the occupation with all the people she killed and her passionate hatred of Cardassians. You push Kira far enough and she can become as bad and as ruthless as Prim when searching for everyone who slighted and hurt her.

But hell your right about Prim, if a common shmuck like him can learn such deadly assassination and terrorist skills, be scared. Be VERY scared!!!

Still this episode came off a bit OTT with a plot as plausible as something like fricking Die Hard or Face Off. At least Duet came off as more plausible...

[Sykonee]

A bit more food for thought:

Considering the Cardassians seem to be expert cosmetic surgeons, why didn't Prim just get facial reconstruction? Was he so embittered by the ordeal that he left it as a reminder and motivation?

Yeah, he be messed up.

[Nerys Ghemor]

That or only the rich can afford such treatments?

[apenpaap]

It does seem rather odd that a common guy like Prin could do all these things; it really makes me wonder why the people of the Federation aren't completely paranoid and why the Dominion never bother trying to just use any of these methods to assassinate the DS9 crew. For that reason it would've been better if Prin had been an Obsidian Order member, but that would of course not have worked.

Aside from all the fridge logic, it was a good, scary episode. A very untrekkian one too, between the serial killer hunt and the confrontation at the end.

[Deranged Nasat]

TheGodBen wrote:

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I know that there's some controversy about Kira's claim in that scene that there were no innocent Cardassians on Bajor, because episodes like Duet had given her a new perspective on such issues, but I completely buy that in that moment she believed what she said. Some part of Kira does believe that, she couldn't have lived through the occupation without some of those dark thoughts, but in normal circumstances her ability to reason will overrule such thinking. But now she's pregnant, her back hurts, people have been treating her as a delicate specimen for months, and some crazy guy has been murdering her oldest friends. So yeah, I can buy that she doesn't have time for reason or feel-good peacenik sentiments in that moment, she just wants to hurt and kill the guy that has her trapped in a chair.

I agree. People are complex and multi-faceted, and good characters are therefore complex and multi-faceted as well. I think we all agree that Kira Nerys is a good character. In my opinion, personal growth rarely involves cutting anything loose completely, because that's not growth, merely change, and people can't let go of themselves quite that easily. Indeed, I'm not sure it would be healthy. Kira hasn't become a new person over the course of her time on DS9; instead she's grown and become ever more complex. Her outlook on Cardassia, the occupation, her own role in fighting it; these have changed; that doesn't mean she's incapable of accessing her former, more cleanly black-and-white perspectives, merely that she's learnt enough to be wary of them and keep them from dominating her outlook, at least most of the time. But when she's under the stress she is here, she can revert, and that doesn't contradict or invalidate episodes like Duet. It just shows that for all Kira is in the present, she, like anyone else, is partly defined by her past. She learned as a youth to keep things simple and clear-cut, as a means of surviving and achieving the goals of the Resistance. Just because she often seeks to put aside those lessons and turn the direction of her life around now that she has the chance (her scene with Opaka in season one being a great example), it doesn't mean she's "unlearnt" them. And it doesn't mean that when she's had a very bad day due to someone who hasn't been at all succssesful in escaping the ghosts of the occupation that she'll necessarily have the patience to reason and reflect.

[R. Star]

Ln X wrote:

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It only gets madder...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEsb3...A2CFCB55EF0AAB

This one is insane!

Haha, forgot what number it was, as I haven't watched em in awhile, but the most hilarious moment is when Picard kills Spot, then Data replicates a new cat!

[datalogan]

I think Kira's conviction definitely comes across in "The Darkness and the Light". The scene with her beating up 3 guys on her way to the bomb site comes to mind, but the scene that I really liked was:

Odo has a list of possible suspects, but doesn't want to let her see it, afraid of what she'd do with the info. So, Kira pretends to be tired, let's Odo walk out of the room, them beams to his office and gets the list and then leaves the station -- all before Odo even gets back to his office. Brilliant!

Still, she was probably showing too much conviction. I mean, do you really want to go after a dangerous killer while pregnant. And I'm not talking about the handicap it gives you in any fighting you have to do. I'm talking about the danger you are putting that unborn kid in. Do you think she still would have been so gun-ho if that was her own kid, versus just a baby she's carrying?

While I generally like Kira, this may actually be the episode where I like her the least. Because she wasn't concerned about the "rule of law". If that was the case she would have just told Odo who to go after versus going herself. She wanted revenge by her own hands. And she was willing to endanger the baby (as well as disobeying orders, etc) to get it. She doesn't really come across in a good light.

Some may argue, as they did her, that Kira still maintains her angrier, younger self and will revert to that from time-to-time. I guess that's true of all of us, and it does make her more real. But I would have hoped she could have been better than that. I like my heroes to be more heroic.

Loved the little continuity nod with Furel and Lupaza showing up again, even if it was just to die.

Great seeing Nog continuing to do well in his chosen job as a Starfleet officer, and especially because he's using his unique Ferengi skill-set to do so. Pretty good for a guy that couldn't read 4 years ago.

[Ln X]

R. Star wrote:

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Haha, forgot what number it was, as I haven't watched em in awhile, but the most hilarious moment is when Picard kills Spot, then Data replicates a new cat!

That's recut 130; How the Mighty Have Fallen.

Makes you wonder why Data got so pissed off in the first place if he could replicate Spot that easily!