"The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

[Set Harth]

sonak wrote:

---

Plus, Nolan is the "inception" guy, so I thought maybe he was going the "this is Alfred's fantasy" route. Caine's expression in that scene just made me think it was a daydream.

According to Caine, all his Inception scenes take place in reality.

[sonak]

Set Harth wrote:

---

According to Caine, all his Inception scenes take place in reality.

is that his interpretation or something he knows from writer/director intent?

If it's the former, it's no more or less valid than anyone else's opinion on it.

[indianatrekker26]

sonak wrote:

---

no, I "got" the IDEA of it, it didn't "go over my head," because it was obvious from a dramatic perspective what they were trying to do.

But from a logic perspective it doesn't work. Bruce should be in WORSE shape to fight Bane the second time, since he was badly wounded and then tossed into a prison. And "rust" or not, Batman should have at least been able to escape from Bane in the first fight when it was clear he was losing. Again, he's got all these gadgets and weapons on his belt. Why's he forcing himself to fight Bane hand to hand? Misplaced chivalry or sense of fair play?

Well, he did try to pull out some of his bag o' tricks from his belt, but Bane saw through it all, because he knew the same tricks. But it all worked for me. i loved the idea of it, because it was such a great nod to the Knightfall storyarc. Due to Batman doing the same thing, running himself ragged against Bane.
One thing i didn't care for was how bane gets taken out, just kinda rubbed me the wrong way.

[Agent Richard07]

Just got back from watching the movie again. This time I was migrane free and saw it in IMAX. It was nice to have the theatre rumble as the BAT took off. I've had my fill for now and I eagerly await the trilogy on Blu-Ray. I still didn't catch how Blake got instructions to find the batcave though, because the ending was so rushed. I'm also undecided as to whether or not he'll take up being the new Batman or if he'll make his own identity. It could go either way. And how will he keep the batcave running without Wayne's resources? Or did I miss something there too?

sonak wrote:

---

That first fight between Batman and Bane
I know the outcome had to be what it was for the plot, but how does Batman lose to Bane? In "Knightfall" Batman was physically and mentally exhausted when they fought, and Bane was much bigger.

Don't forget, Bruce was crippled. He had that leg brace, but I'm guessing that that could only go so far. I think his subduing Bane at the end was due in part to sheer determination.

And about Bane... The reasoning behind his mask is a bit contrived, but I'll accept it. Gotta have some sort of gimmick for your supervillain.

Kegg wrote:

---

Quinn from Dexter was in it too! He was the cop who blew out the bridge.

So that's who that was. I couldn't place him, and I watch Dexter.

Kegg wrote:

---

Sure, there were some groaners in the plot development - Bane's opening capture of Pavel is eyebrow-raisingly silly, even by the loose standards of Nolan's Batman films...

I thought that the whole intro with Bane was epic. And didn't that physicist look like Timothy Dalton?

Kegg wrote:

---

Oh, yeah, and Michelle Pfieffer is my standard by which I judge Catwomen. Anne Hathaway was no Michelle Pfieffer, but then she didn't seem to have half as much material as Catwoman did in Batman Returns. She's almost Rachel Dawes only a jewel thief instead of whatever Rachel Dawes was again.

Michelle Pfieffer was never my ideal Catwoman, so I don't find her hard to top.

jbny67 wrote:

---

That was his dialogue at the funeral at the end.

I know what line he's talking about and I didn't notice it either. It was't the line from the funeral.

sonak wrote:

---

I just didn't catch the part about him escaping with the plane-thing on autopilot.

I was wondering about that too. How and when did he escape? On the second viewing though, I just accepted that he ejected and got away before the Bat got too far out to sea.

[Warped9]

Just got back from seeing this...

I think this a damn fine film, but I do say that with some small caveats depending on what you might be expecting. Nolan has told an interesting story that didn't really need the Batman or any comic book superhero to tell it. But in using Batman perhaps he reaches a broader audience in the short term and in the long run.

I certainly didn't have any problem following this story unlike some others have claimed. And while long I thought it was decently paced and didn't really feel like 2hrs.,45mins.

In context of how Nolan wanted to tell his story over three films I think TDKR works quite well. I thought the acting was quite good overall from everyone involved. It also works well enough as a standalone piece.

Tom Hardy's Bane isn't as memorable as Heath Ledger's Joker, but Bane is damn chilling nonetheless. And I'm pretty sure I understood near everything he said in the movie. Anne Hathaway's Catwoman works really well and I could easily see her in a solo feature. For me she blows away anyone else who has played the role live-action.

The ending is open ended in so many ways---nothing is really off the table for a possible followup.

Here's the caveat as I see it. Just as The Dark Knight Returns was Frank Miller's take on Batman and his world, The Dark Knight Rises is just as much Chris Nolan's take on it. This Batman, as well as Alfred and Jim Gordon, are not the ones from the comics or the animated series or straight-to-video animated features. There are similarities yet there are also marked differences.

Your mileage may vary depending on what you're expecting.

In the end I vote a qualified Good rather than Excellent simply because I would rather have seen the Batman, Alfred and Jim Gordon from the comics and animated series and features. That Batman could be hurt, but wasn't emotionally fragile or defeated. He also certainly wouldn't have taken the rap for something he didn't do. I also don't see the familiar Jim Gordon being a part of such a lie and coverup, particularly for such an extended period of time. I also don't think Alfred would ever walk out on Bruce, ever.

The other issue I had was some of the back story and setup. Batman/Bruce goes into hiding and seclusion after the death of Harvey Dent? I don't think so. He might have accepted being an outlaw, but he would have continued operating.

Part of the issue here is that Nolan uses broad strokes to set up and tell his story rather than use more nuance and detail. I can understand why he did this, perhaps to up the stakes emotionally for the characters and to keep things simpler for the audience. I would have preferred more nuance in some of these elements.

[davejames]

I thought the first showdown with Bane was pretty good actually. It was brutal and violent and hard to watch, just like you would expect it to be. And maybe Batman should have been better prepared, but he (like us) probably didn't expect Bane to be so hard to take down. Since he basically looked like just another big, musclebound stooge.

I do think Nolan probably made Bane a little TOO tough and unstoppable though. Despite his size, we should still have seen Batman doing more damage than he did, with the armor he was wearing and the powerful punches he was throwing.

The movie basically made it look like he was fighting Hulk or Superman or something, which seems a bit far-fetched.

[Warped9]

TDKR also plays on a wholly different level than The Avengers or any other superhero flick. Nolan touches on bigger ideas and can leave you something to think about. His characters suffer and there's an edge that just isn't in other superhero films that are always "just for fun."

[Starbreaker]

This film met and exceeded my expectations. I thought Catwoman was going to be silly, but she was used perfectly. I thought that Bane wouldn't stand a candle to the Joker, but Tom Hardy was great. Michael Caine turned in a powerful performance. I was actually shocked that Miranda was working with Bane. I loved this movie.

[NebulaClassGuy]

davejames wrote:

---

I do think Nolan probably made Bane a little TOO tough and unstoppable though. Despite his size, we should still have seen Batman doing more damage than he did, with the armor he was wearing and the powerful punches he was throwing.

The movie basically made it look like he was fighting Hulk or Superman or something, which seems a bit far-fetched.

This is actually how Bane is supposed to be... he basically is a hulk. As has been pointed out, in the comics he paralyzed Bruce Wayne, and in the animated series, Bane was so strong that even Superman was in awe that Batman had survived encounters with him, and it actually took the power of Superman to deal Bane a blow and put him in his place.

So hearing that he's so strong in this film makes me feel a LOT better about the depiction of him, since I didn't think Tom Hardy was that great a choice to play him, from a purely physical standpoint.

[JD]

Agent Richard07 wrote:

---

Just got back from watching the movie again. This time I was migrane free and saw it in IMAX. It was nice to have the theatre rumble as the BAT took off. I've had my fill for now and I eagerly await the trilogy on Blu-Ray. I still didn't catch how Blake got instructions to find the batcave though, because the ending was so rushed. I'm also undecided as to whether or not he'll take up being the new Batman or if he'll make his own identity. It could go either way. And how will he keep the batcave running without Wayne's resources? Or did I miss something there too?

Don't forget, Bruce was crippled. He had that leg brace, but I'm guessing that that could only go so far. I think his subduing Bane at the end was due in part to sheer determination.

And about Bane... The reasoning behind his mask is a bit contrived, but I'll accept it. Gotta have some sort of gimmick for your supervillain.

So that's who that was. I couldn't place him, and I watch Dexter.

I thought that the whole intro with Bane was epic. And didn't that physicist look like Timothy Dalton?

Michelle Pfieffer was never my ideal Catwoman, so I don't find her hard to top.

I didn't realize so many people liked Pfieffer's Catwoman so much. The last time I watched the movie, I wasn't that impressed with her. I thought she was ok, but i definitely like the animated series', and Arkham games' take on her a lot better. I haven't seen the movie yet, but when I do I'll be judging Hathaway based on those, not Pfieffer.

[Set Harth]

Starbreaker wrote:

---

I was actually shocked that Miranda was working with Bane.

I've heard more than one person say this.

I'm actually amazed some people remained unspoiled on this point. I actually didn't read the hidden spoiler portions of the relevant posts, but I could tell what had happened just from the flavor of people's reactions.

I thought that this was kind of an "open secret" about the film, but then again I probably don't do enough to avoid spoilers.

[davejames]

NebulaClassGuy wrote:

---

This is actually how Bane is supposed to be... he basically is a hulk. As has been pointed out, in the comics he paralyzed Bruce Wayne, and in the animated series, Bane was so strong that even Superman was in awe that Batman had survived encounters with him, and it actually took the power of Superman to deal Bane a blow and put him in his place.

So hearing that he's so strong in this film makes me feel a LOT better about the depiction of him, since I didn't think Tom Hardy was that great a choice to play him, from a purely physical standpoint.

Well sure, in the comics and cartoons. But this was depicted as being a much more believable, real world version of the story.

And in that world I would expect Bane to be a bit less cartoonishly powerful than he was here.

[davejames]

Even if Miranda's true identity was a surprise, it was pretty plainly obvious she was working with Bane in some way. Her romance with Bruce was contrived as hell and you knew she was going to betray him at some point.

When Bruce entrusted her with the fusion reactor I just had to roll my eyes.

[Lapis Exilis]

posted by AgentRichard07

I was wondering about that too. How and when did he escape? On the second viewing though, I just accepted that he ejected and got away before the Bat got too far out to sea.

As Batman is grappling the bomb to the Bat, someone (can't remember who - Selina maybe?) says something along the lines of, "So you'll fly out and then eject?" and he replies, "No autopilot", but after everything calms down, Lucius discovers that was a lie when he asks the technicians working on the Bat to let him know how he could have repaired the autopilot and they say it was repaired with patch and identify Bruce as the person who installed it. So he flew out, ejected, left the Bat on autopilot to fly the bomb further out where it went kablooie.

Set Harth wrote:

---

I've heard more than one person say this.

I'm actually amazed some people remained unspoiled on this point. I actually didn't read the hidden spoiler portions of the relevant posts, but I could tell what had happened just from the flavor of people's reactions.

I thought that this was kind of an "open secret" about the film, but then again I probably don't do enough to avoid spoilers.

I knew Miranda was Talia - it was a big time fan rumor and then she majorly telegraphs it in her first appearance onscreen when she says, "If someone wishes to restore balance to the world..." a line straight from Ra's mouth in BB. However, the reveal still caught me out because I was buying the red herring that Bane was also Ra's child. I figured they were brother and sister, but probably didn't know each other and that Bane was operating a kind of rogue League, while Talia was there as leader of the group her father had led. I didn't know what her game was except that she was sure to exact revenge on Bruce. So discovering that Bane was a front for her was quite a surprise.

[Kegg]

I'd heard about the Talia rumour and I was vaguely sure Marion Cotillard was going to maybe be Talia and until Bane was 'revealed' as al Ghul's son, so I just rolled with that.

In retrospect another early clue about her identity is a scar on her back that Bruce Wayne sees early on.

JD wrote:

---

I didn't realize so many people liked Pfieffer's Catwoman so much.

It seems to be just me in this thread. Pfieffer's Catwoman, like Batman Returns generally, is something I often feel largely alone on the TrekBBS in liking (and liking far better than the Burton's first movie).

My point was though that Anne Hathaway was so underutilized in this film that my comparison to Michelle Pfieffer - which I was gonna make anyway - didn't feel fair.