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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old July 17 2012, 10:22 PM   #1
Lightshield
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So if the comics & video game are canon...

Orci stated at Comic-Con, when pressed, that all of the recent IDW Star Trek comic books are canon... which includes the first arc featuring Gary Mitchell.

Would anyone else feel a sense of letdown at this point if Cumberbatch turns out to be either Khan or Mitchell? I know Orci said he's playing an existing character, but I just have this sinking feeling that if he turns out to be Khan it's just setting the movie up to fail, as far as fan expectations go.

So if we rule out all of the characters that have appeared in the comics so far, who else could there possibly be for him to be playing?
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Old July 17 2012, 10:29 PM   #2
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Re: So if the comics & video game are canon...

It's likely either Khan or Mitchell.

Why would Khan be setting the movie up to fail?
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Old July 17 2012, 10:35 PM   #3
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Re: So if the comics & video game are canon...

Well, I was just thinking that since Khan is the crown-jewel of Trek movie fandom, I just think redoing Khan is inviting comparisons that they might not be able to live up to, no matter how well they pull it off.

Then again, I guess the same thing could be said about the reboot in general.
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Old July 17 2012, 10:39 PM   #4
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Re: So if the comics & video game are canon...

Lightshield wrote: View Post
Orci stated at Comic-Con, when pressed, that all of the recent IDW Star Trek comic books are canon... which includes the first arc featuring Gary Mitchell.

Would anyone else feel a sense of letdown at this point if Cumberbatch turns out to be either Khan or Mitchell? I know Orci said he's playing an existing character, but I just have this sinking feeling that if he turns out to be Khan it's just setting the movie up to fail, as far as fan expectations go.

So if we rule out all of the characters that have appeared in the comics so far, who else could there possibly be for him to be playing?
Failing Fan expectations is not necessarily a bad thing for the success of the movie for the studio. If movies were made entirely to please the "fans", they would most likely fail miserably, because fan expectations aren't completely compatible with General Audience appreciation. Certainly a balance can be drawn, as I believe was with ST09, and I believe could be with either Khan or Gary Mitchell.

Plus, while the fans grumble and moan before a movie comes out about what's being done wrong, many times they will end up liking the actual movie that is released.

Catering 100% to Fan expectations would very often be a poor business decision for a movie studio
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Old July 17 2012, 11:03 PM   #5
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Re: So if the comics & video game are canon...

Oh I totally agree that catering to Fan expectations can be disastrous... but then again, I think it's too early to be tackling Khan in the first place. Though I assume they are only targeting a Trilogy with this cast instead of an ongoing franchise, so they may just be "hitting the highlights" story wise.
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Old July 17 2012, 11:11 PM   #6
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Re: So if the comics & video game are canon...

Lightshield wrote: View Post
So if we rule out all of the characters that have appeared in the comics so far, who else could there possibly be for him to be playing?
In all of TOS? Hundreds! (Garth, Norman, Trelane, Finnegan, Korby, Baris, Decker, Garrovick - Jr or Sr - or Finney, to name just a few.)

It could also be someone who has been mentioned (or even featured) in the comic already although, by killing off Gary already, it kinda rules him out; it's highly unlikely they'd use a previous storyline read by less that 1% of the potential viewing audience. They've also said that the comics have been seeded with Easter eggs and red herrings for the next movie.

All Orci is suggesting with his "canon" stance is that, after all the effort put into helping to plot/steer the storylines of the IDW comics that tie-in to the new movie, they are attempting not to clash with anything they've done in those tie-ins. That's partly why four novels, set after the events of the first movie, were set aside: Orci & Kurtzman had not had a hand in those, and had no time to read them and correct them.
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Old July 17 2012, 11:17 PM   #7
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Re: So if the comics & video game are canon...

Lightshield wrote: View Post
Orci stated at Comic-Con, when pressed, that all of the recent IDW Star Trek comic books are canon...
And he's already walked back that statement:

Bob Orci wrote:
0h please. have a little fun. i said and have said exactly what you just said forever, but Pascale pushed me, he wont give up! i have said a million times that we cant determine what is canon. on this day, i said something else. “consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds”
(Source: comment #102 in this TrekMovie post.)

So the comics still aren't considered canonical. Basically an interviewer was pushing the question and trying to convince Orci to declare he would treat Abramsverse Trek tie-ins as the same kind of non-binding "canon" as Star Wars tie-ins, and Orci just played along, probably because it was easier than arguing.
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Old July 17 2012, 11:17 PM   #8
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Re: So if the comics & video game are canon...

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Lightshield wrote: View Post
So if we rule out all of the characters that have appeared in the comics so far, who else could there possibly be for him to be playing?
In all of TOS? Hundreds! (Garth, Norman, Trelane, Finnegan, Korby, Baris, Decker, Garrovick - Jr or Sr - or Finney, to name just a few.)
Well, I meant that Cumberbatch would fit.
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Old July 17 2012, 11:23 PM   #9
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Re: So if the comics & video game are canon...

Lightshield wrote: View Post
Orci stated at Comic-Con, when pressed, that all of the recent IDW Star Trek comic books are canon... which includes the first arc featuring Gary Mitchell.
Which he followed up with this comment, earlier today...
Bob Orci wrote:
0h please. have a little fun. i said and have said exactly what you just said forever, but Pascale pushed me, he wont give up! i have said a million times that we cant determine what is canon. on this day, i said something else. “consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds”
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Old July 17 2012, 11:23 PM   #10
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Re: So if the comics & video game are canon...

Lightshield wrote: View Post
Well, I meant that Cumberbatch would fit.
He's a versatile actor. That's why he was chosen.
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Old July 20 2012, 01:38 AM   #11
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Re: So if the comics & video game are canon...

Bob Orci wrote:
0h please. have a little fun. i said and have said exactly what you just said forever, but Pascale pushed me, he wont give up! i have said a million times that we cant determine what is canon. on this day, i said something else. “consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds”
Holy sweet shit, he actually started that off with a zero! What is the obsession with leading zeroes these guys have?

Lightshield wrote: View Post
Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Lightshield wrote: View Post
So if we rule out all of the characters that have appeared in the comics so far, who else could there possibly be for him to be playing?
In all of TOS? Hundreds! (Garth, Norman, Trelane, Finnegan, Korby, Baris, Decker, Garrovick - Jr or Sr - or Finney, to name just a few.)
Well, I meant that Cumberbatch would fit.
Khan doesn't really fit Cumberbatch, but that doesn't stop everyone from believing that's who he must be. Therefore, any villain from TOS is fair game to guess as Cumberbatch's role.

I personally think it will the movie is a remake of Patterns of Force with Peter Weller playing John Gill and Cumberbatch playing Melakon. Okay, I don't really think that, but it would be pretty awesome all the same. They're both a perfect fit for those roles.

But since Weller's playing playing a new character according to the most recent version of events, lets just stop speculating on him and decide that Cumberbatch is Cloud William. Then again, he wasn't really a villain, was he? Captain Ron Tracey then?
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Old July 20 2012, 01:46 AM   #12
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Re: So if the comics & video game are canon...

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
...he actually started that off with a zero! What is the obsession with leading zeroes these guys have?
Huh? The letter O and the number 0 are very close on the keyboard, typed with the same finger, and they closely resemble each other. It's an easy mistake to make, and an easy one to overlook if you're typing quickly.
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Old July 20 2012, 02:18 AM   #13
The Wormhole
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Re: So if the comics & video game are canon...

Christopher wrote: View Post
The Wormhole wrote: View Post
...he actually started that off with a zero! What is the obsession with leading zeroes these guys have?
Huh? The letter O and the number 0 are very close on the keyboard, typed with the same finger, and they closely resemble each other. It's an easy mistake to make, and an easy one to overlook if you're typing quickly.
Some history:
I've made something of a habit on this forum mocking Abrams and his Cohorts on the registry NCC-0514 for the USS Kelvin. And it is odd to see a four digit registry have a leading zero given that there have been three digit registries in the past (USS Grissom NCC-638).

I've gone on accusing Abrams and his Cohorts of having a fixation with the number zero and a need to start everything off with it. I even had an avatar (supplied to me by someone else) of the Count from Sesame Street counting with leading zeroes, known as "Learning to count, Abrams style."

So honest mistake or not, it is amusing to see Orci starting a sentence off with a zero since it ties into that which made me a staple for a couple of weeks on this forum.
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Old July 20 2012, 02:37 AM   #14
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Re: So if the comics & video game are canon...

^Seriously? You've "made a habit" of mocking and accusing people for something so monumentally unimportant? That's the pettiest thing I've heard all week.

Honestly, people, it's just a movie. Get over it already.
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Old July 20 2012, 05:03 AM   #15
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Re: So if the comics & video game are canon...

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Bob Orci wrote:
0h please. have a little fun. i said and have said exactly what you just said forever, but Pascale pushed me, he wont give up! i have said a million times that we cant determine what is canon. on this day, i said something else. “consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds”
Holy sweet shit, he actually started that off with a zero! What is the obsession with leading zeroes these guys have?
He knows, Wormhole. He knows.
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