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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old July 17 2012, 05:54 PM   #16
zarkon
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Re: The comics are now canon

The only thing Orci's probable joke even has in favour of it is cap'n data.

Something's got to start him on his inexorable path to Commodore damnit
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Old July 17 2012, 07:32 PM   #17
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Re: The comics are now canon

He was not kidding. Ask him yourself. He and I have been talking about this for a while. He even noted in our 'is movie character canon' game (see my previously posted interview) that if they put a movie character into the comics before the release of the movie does that make them already canon, which we agreed yes but not part of the 'original canon'.

So no, this is no joke. Although I suspect CBS needs to get on board for it. As noted in the interview, Paramount are already in agreement that the game is canon. I suspect IDW would also welcome it.
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Old July 17 2012, 07:53 PM   #18
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Re: The comics are now canon

Countdown was fine, but I chose to ignore for the book timeline
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Old July 17 2012, 07:53 PM   #19
PPatters
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Re: The comics are now canon

PowderedToastMan wrote: View Post
He was not kidding. Ask him yourself. He and I have been talking about this for a while. He even noted in our 'is movie character canon' game (see my previously posted interview) that if they put a movie character into the comics before the release of the movie does that make them already canon, which we agreed yes but not part of the 'original canon'.

So no, this is no joke. Although I suspect CBS needs to get on board for it. As noted in the interview, Paramount are already in agreement that the game is canon. I suspect IDW would also welcome it.
From the interview, I didn't get the idea he was goaded or kidding, but I think Christopher brings up some good points. Canon is different from continuity and quality. AND, canon has been ever-changing in Trek for a while now. (This is similar in any long-running show -- look at M*A*S*H, one of the most well-regarded shows ever -- out of necessity, they had to contradict themselves only because they didn't know how long they'd last. That said, M*A*S*H is regarded no less for its quality because of that.) At the end of the day, the only people who need worry about "canon" and what is and isn't canon are the very people that set it and those that need work within its framework. (At the end of the day, then, I would say that Trek authors, such as Christopher, are the ones that have to truly care -- they don't get to decide what is and isn't canon, but also aren't allowed to go around contradicting it.)

Star Trek is an entertainment franchise, intended to entertain its fans. Whatever makes Star Trek more enjoyable for you as a fan, accept that as part of your "canon" (though, again as Christopher has eluded, that wouldn't be the appropriate word -- but it is the word most fans attribute to the concept for themselves) and whatever doesn't, ignore
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Old July 17 2012, 08:16 PM   #20
captcalhoun
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Re: The comics are now canon

since i don't even count the last movie as canon, i don't care about the crappy tie-ins for it.
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Old July 17 2012, 09:10 PM   #21
F. King Daniel
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Re: The comics are now canon

PowderedToastMan wrote: View Post
He was not kidding. Ask him yourself. He and I have been talking about this for a while. He even noted in our 'is movie character canon' game (see my previously posted interview) that if they put a movie character into the comics before the release of the movie does that make them already canon, which we agreed yes but not part of the 'original canon'.

So no, this is no joke. Although I suspect CBS needs to get on board for it. As noted in the interview, Paramount are already in agreement that the game is canon. I suspect IDW would also welcome it.
Hmmm....
Bob Orci wrote:
0h please. have a little fun. i said and have said exactly what you just said forever, but Pascale pushed me, he wont give up! i have said a million times that we cant determine what is canon. on this day, i said something else. “consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds”
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Old July 17 2012, 09:31 PM   #22
Christopher
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Re: The comics are now canon

PPatters wrote: View Post
At the end of the day, the only people who need worry about "canon" and what is and isn't canon are the very people that set it and those that need work within its framework. (At the end of the day, then, I would say that Trek authors, such as Christopher, are the ones that have to truly care -- they don't get to decide what is and isn't canon, but also aren't allowed to go around contradicting it.)
Exactly. Exactly. The fans -- the people who obsess the most about canon -- are the ones it affects the least, because they're free to include or exclude anything they want from their personal continuity. And the people who create new canon are free to retcon, reinvent, or disregard parts of the old. The only people who are actually limited by canon are the tie-in authors like me, since we have to stay consistent with it no matter what it does.



KingDaniel wrote: View Post
Hmmm....
Bob Orci wrote:
0h please. have a little fun. i said and have said exactly what you just said forever, but Pascale pushed me, he wont give up! i have said a million times that we cant determine what is canon. on this day, i said something else. “consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds”
Sounds like a pretty definitive walkback. Should we maybe change the thread title?
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Old July 17 2012, 10:05 PM   #23
Dukhat
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Re: The comics are now canon

The only things that are currently viewed as canon by CBS and Paramount are the five Trek series and the feature films (although the new movie will supposedly take place completely in the nuUniverse, but the nuUniverse's origins were from the canon Prime universe). There are also "official" publications, such as the various Encyclopedias, Chronologies, and Technical manuals put out by the Trek production personnel at the time, which are still considered official. TAS is a gray area because it's not officially canon although small parts of it appear in the regular series.

Now, with that said, whoever is currently in charge of Trek (which would be Paramount/JJ Abrams, and CBS, although they're doing nothing with it), or if the reigns were given to someone else in the future, it would be they who determine what's canon or not. Which means that if said person(s) all of a sudden declare that TNG isn't canon anymore and create a series that flatly contradicts everything we saw in TNG, then they would be fully within their rights to do so. Does that mean that we fans can no longer enjoy watching TNG now that its place in the canon is gone? Hell no. But as far as TPTB are concerned, it's now meaningless to them.

This is why Abrams made a nuUniverse instead of a complete reboot. He wanted to acknowledge and respect the 40+ years of Trek history even though he had to create something anew to be able to tell new stories without being bogged down by past canon.
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Old July 17 2012, 10:10 PM   #24
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Re: The comics are now canon

Published materials are not canon.
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Old July 17 2012, 10:21 PM   #25
Dukhat
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Re: The comics are now canon

I didn't say they were canon; I said they were official.
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Old July 17 2012, 10:42 PM   #26
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Re: The comics are now canon

Dukhat wrote: View Post
I didn't say they were canon; I said they were official.
Which means they mean nothing in the grand scheme of things.
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Old July 17 2012, 11:19 PM   #27
Christopher
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Re: The comics are now canon

By the way, KingDaniel, what's your source for that Orci quote you posted before?

EDIT: Never mind, I found it. It's comment #102 in the TrekMovie article.
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Old July 18 2012, 12:50 AM   #28
Dukhat
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Re: The comics are now canon

BillJ wrote: View Post
Dukhat wrote: View Post
I didn't say they were canon; I said they were official.
Which means they mean nothing in the grand scheme of things.
What it means is that anyone writing scripts for Trek shows and movies (or novels too) can use the information in those sources, or the sources themselves could affect what someone writes, as opposed to using a source like the FASA Next Generation Officer's Manual from 1988, which is considered unofficial and invalid toward the present canon.
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Old July 18 2012, 12:55 AM   #29
Christopher
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Re: The comics are now canon

^Technically, all "official" means is that Paramount licensed the publisher to print it. Nothing more should be read into it than that.

Really, it's a mistake to think that sticking labels on things lets you define or understand them. The noteworthy thing about the Chronology, Encyclopedia, etc. wasn't about some label, it was the fact that they were written by members of the shows' production staff. Which means that they were (mostly) accurate as to the content of the shows at the time and the thinking of at least some members of the show's creative staff, so were as close to the source as one could hope from a tie-in reference book; but of course, they were not binding on future canon and have subsequently been contradicted in some respects.
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Old July 18 2012, 02:03 AM   #30
JD
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Re: The comics are now canon

I don't really see where Oci's first comment during the interview actually made any difference. That pretty much seemed to be the approach they taking were from the beginning.
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