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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate Raise the Dawn.
Outstanding 82 70.69%
Above Average 25 21.55%
Average 3 2.59%
Below Average 3 2.59%
Poor 3 2.59%
Voters: 116. You may not vote on this poll

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Old July 11 2012, 09:38 PM   #256
Sci
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Re: TP: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Defcon wrote: View Post
JWolf wrote: View Post
But would you return given how poorly treated he was? People jumped on him and said things that weren't even true. They made out like he just did something so very awful. It wasn't nice and would like to have DRG3 back, I cannot blame him for not being here.
Thing is, I just reread the RBOE review thread where he announced his departure (here and here), and I couldn't really find anything like what you describe. There were negative comments, sure, but you make it sound as if he was jumped by an angry mob and beaten into a bloody pulp.
He didn't do it because of that one thread. It was his opinion that the TrekLit board had in general becoming a more and more negative place over a long period of time.
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Old July 11 2012, 09:47 PM   #257
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Re: TP: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Sci wrote: View Post
Defcon wrote: View Post
JWolf wrote: View Post
But would you return given how poorly treated he was? People jumped on him and said things that weren't even true. They made out like he just did something so very awful. It wasn't nice and would like to have DRG3 back, I cannot blame him for not being here.
Thing is, I just reread the RBOE review thread where he announced his departure (here and here), and I couldn't really find anything like what you describe. There were negative comments, sure, but you make it sound as if he was jumped by an angry mob and beaten into a bloody pulp.
He didn't do it because of that one thread. It was his opinion that the TrekLit board had in general becoming a more and more negative place over a long period of time.
I know that and even pointed that out recently in a thread here, but our friend JWolf here made it sound like DRG III was verbally "abused" for RBOE and that was the reason for his departure , where that was definitely not the case, so posts like the one above get on my nerves.
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Old July 12 2012, 12:00 AM   #258
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Re: TP: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

When someone abuses your work, that is akin to abusing you too.
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Old July 12 2012, 12:36 AM   #259
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Re: TP: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Great book. I've been in love with Terok Nor since DS9 first premiered and I've always been vehemently the idea of destroying it. So it was with some reluctance that I picked up and read PoN and RtD. But I'm glad I did because the books won me over and I really enjoyed them. I'm looking forward to seeing more of the new station and for the first time in years I'm happy with the direction that DS9 has taken.

Last edited by JWD75; July 12 2012 at 03:16 AM.
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Old July 12 2012, 03:52 AM   #260
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Re: TP: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Man, I wish DRGIII still posted here, because I'd like to personally thank him and commend him for writing one of the best Trek Lit novels I've ever read.

For better or worse, the Destiny trilogy, Kirsten Beyer's Full Circle (not to mention her subsequent Voyager books) and the previous books that were released under the Typhon Pact banner really raised the bar in terms of the scope of storytelling in Trek Lit, and Raise the Dawn fits right into that mold. The book's scale and scope wasn't as far-reaching or all-encompassing as the Destiny trilogy or Full Circle, but, like its predecessor Plagues of Night, it certainly didn't shy away from covering a ton of material in a relatively short span of time.

I was saddened to see the destruction of the old DS9, but, for me, what made that series great - both onscreen and off - was the characters more than the setting, and so I wasn't terribly upset at the decision to destroy the station. I was saddened by the death of Jeanette Chao, though, because I liked what DRGIII did with her in Plagues of Night and was looking forward to seeing more of her in the future, but that's really neither here nor there.

Kira and Vaughn's deaths were more saddening for me than the destruction of the station itself, but the way DRGIII handled things on that front was incredibly satisfying nonetheless, not to mention really interesting (especially since I don't believe I ever saw the episode which spawned the 'alt history' dream/vision sequences that were a fairly big part of Kira's arc in this book and played a substantial part in Plagues of Night and S.D. Perry's Unity).

I'm really looking forward to seeing what happens with DS9 and her crew going forward, especially since I'm interested to see if Sisko and his ship and crew continue to be featured prominently, and what specific roles Odo and Nog will play. I can't really envision both the Chief Engineer and Assistant Chief Engineer being featured prominently in subsequent stories, which leads me to wonder if we won't see Nog join Prynn as being permanently assigned to the Defiant.

Not only did the book really set the table incredibly well for future DS9 stories, it also, IMO, set the table pretty well for a buildup to the events of 2387 as seen in J.J. Abrams' Star Trek. I love Praetor Kammemor, and cannot wait to see what happens next with her government.

As an aside, did anyone else find it interesting that the book didn't feature an Acknowledgements section? I can't remember many Trek books that lacked one.

I closing, I've got to say that, if you haven't already picked up this book and its predecessor, do so now, because it's excellent with a capitol 'E'.
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Old July 12 2012, 07:16 AM   #261
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Re: TP: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

JWolf wrote: View Post
I think now is the time for every single person on TrekBBS who poo-pooed DRG3, insulted him, annoyed him, said bad things about his work and so forth to go find out the best way you can to get down on your knees and grovel in front of him so hopefully he will com back here. ALL OF YOU WERE WRONG! So suck it up, admit it, grovel and whatever you have to do to prove you were wrong and get DRG3 back here.
Lulz.

Thrawn wrote: View Post
I think this has been, potentially, the most relentlessly positive review thread for a new book in years.
And worth every bit of it.
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Old July 12 2012, 08:04 AM   #262
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Re: TP: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

JWolf wrote: View Post
When someone abuses your work, that is akin to abusing you too.
And you still don't get the point:

If David R. George III hasn't lied to us (and I have no reason to believe he has), his departure had nothing to do with criticizing his work. So no matter how much you and others fellate him here verbally for these books, it shouldn't have an impact on the decision if he returns or not.

I don't really get the hype about this duology anyway. While RBOE wasn't as bad as some made it out to be back then, this duology isn't nearly the masterpiece some seem to believe it is IMO. Like I said above Raise the Dawn is a good novel, but nowhere near the quality of DRG III's earlier works like Twilight, Serpents among the Ruins or The 34th Rule IMO.
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Old July 12 2012, 01:29 PM   #263
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Re: TP: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Defcon wrote: View Post
I don't really get the hype about this duology anyway. While RBOE wasn't as bad as some made it out to be back then, this duology isn't nearly the masterpiece some seem to believe it is IMO. Like I said above Raise the Dawn is a good novel, but nowhere near the quality of DRG III's earlier works like Twilight, Serpents among the Ruins or The 34th Rule IMO.
I don't think "hype" is the right word to describe the enthusiasm many here are expressing. My own enthusiasm for the duology stems from what I see as a return to the great DS9 relaunch books. Avatar to Warpath are, to me, the 8th season of DS9 and what got me into reading Trek books again. I felt as if the last two DS9 books didn't measure up to what had come before and then the sudden "jump forward" to Destiny was very jarring. DS9 felt neglected and with this new duology DS9 now feels back on track (now on it's 9th season? ).
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Old July 12 2012, 01:38 PM   #264
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Re: TP: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

mindx2 wrote: View Post
Defcon wrote: View Post
I don't really get the hype about this duology anyway. While RBOE wasn't as bad as some made it out to be back then, this duology isn't nearly the masterpiece some seem to believe it is IMO. Like I said above Raise the Dawn is a good novel, but nowhere near the quality of DRG III's earlier works like Twilight, Serpents among the Ruins or The 34th Rule IMO.
I don't think "hype" is the right word to describe the enthusiasm many here are expressing. My own enthusiasm for the duology stems from what I see as a return to the great DS9 relaunch books. Avatar to Warpath are, to me, the 8th season of DS9 and what got me into reading Trek books again. I felt as if the last two DS9 books didn't measure up to what had come before and then the sudden "jump forward" to Destiny was very jarring. DS9 felt neglected and with this new duology DS9 now feels back on track (now on it's 9th season? ).
not to dredge up this old discussion, but Avatar to Unity is season 8, Worlds of DS9 to The Soul Key is season 9. This is perhaps, season 10-11
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Old July 12 2012, 01:42 PM   #265
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Re: TP: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

RonG wrote: View Post
not to dredge up this old discussion, but Avatar to Unity is season 8, Worlds of DS9 to The Soul Key is season 9. This is perhaps, season 10-11
Yeah, your probably right . I was just typing my thoughts down quickly.

Last edited by mindx2; July 12 2012 at 01:57 PM.
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Old July 12 2012, 01:50 PM   #266
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Re: TP: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

RonG wrote: View Post
not to dredge up this old discussion, but Avatar to Unity is season 8, Worlds of DS9 to The Soul Key is season 9.
Which is just one opinion, not a universally accepted rule. I still think that if you're going to impose a "season" structure on the novels (which you really shouldn't with any seriousness, because they were specifically designed not to mimic television story structure), it's a better fit to treat Unity (set in September) as the big February sweeps event and Olympus Descending (which ends on December 31) as the cliffhanger season finale. Warpath, Fearful Symmetry, and The Soul Key were meant to be the beginning of the next phase after that, but that phase was cut short due to Marco's layoff and the decision to jump the series forward in time.
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Old July 12 2012, 01:55 PM   #267
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Re: TP: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Christopher wrote: View Post
RonG wrote: View Post
not to dredge up this old discussion, but Avatar to Unity is season 8, Worlds of DS9 to The Soul Key is season 9.
Which is just one opinion, not a universally accepted rule. I still think that if you're going to impose a "season" structure on the novels (which you really shouldn't with any seriousness, because they were specifically designed not to mimic television story structure), it's a better fit to treat Unity (set in September) as the big February sweeps event and Olympus Descending (which ends on December 31) as the cliffhanger season finale. Warpath, Fearful Symmetry, and The Soul Key were meant to be the beginning of the next phase after that, but that phase was cut short due to Marco's layoff and the decision to jump the series forward in time.
Of course it's only IMO, Christopher IIRC both of us said these exact things a couple of years ago

As to your "season" overview, while that's one way of looking at it, IMO the overall first arc of DS9R concludes in Unity, while WoDS9 mostly opens up new story threads.
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Old July 12 2012, 01:56 PM   #268
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Re: TP: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Christopher wrote: View Post
RonG wrote: View Post
not to dredge up this old discussion, but Avatar to Unity is season 8, Worlds of DS9 to The Soul Key is season 9.
Which is just one opinion, not a universally accepted rule. I still think that if you're going to impose a "season" structure on the novels (which you really shouldn't with any seriousness, because they were specifically designed not to mimic television story structure), it's a better fit to treat Unity (set in September) as the big February sweeps event and Olympus Descending (which ends on December 31) as the cliffhanger season finale. Warpath, Fearful Symmetry, and The Soul Key were meant to be the beginning of the next phase after that, but that phase was cut short due to Marco's layoff and the decision to jump the series forward in time.
It's just fun to think of them as continuing seasons . I definitely feel as if DRGIII's duology is the beginning of a "new" season... regardless of which one it is .
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Old July 12 2012, 03:00 PM   #269
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Re: TP: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

RonG wrote: View Post
Of course it's only IMO, Christopher IIRC both of us said these exact things a couple of years ago
Yes, but this is not a private conversation between the two of us. This is a public forum and may be read by any number of people who aren't familiar with those past discussions. So phrasing your opinion as if it were an absolute truth could be misleading, and I didn't want anyone to come away with false impressions because of it.
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Old July 12 2012, 03:23 PM   #270
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Re: TP: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Christopher wrote: View Post
RonG wrote: View Post
Of course it's only IMO, Christopher IIRC both of us said these exact things a couple of years ago
Yes, but this is not a private conversation between the two of us. This is a public forum and may be read by any number of people who aren't familiar with those past discussions. So phrasing your opinion as if it were an absolute truth could be misleading, and I didn't want anyone to come away with false impressions because of it.
I did think that RonG's response meant that this board had come to a consensus on the whole "seasons" thing .
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