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Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

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Old July 10 2012, 01:46 AM   #271
The Wormhole
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Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

Kosh Naranek wrote: View Post
I hate to be one of those people, but today I am going to do it. The movie was no where near as good as the book.
As much as I enjoyed the moive, I'll agree the book does a better job at presenting a story of Lincoln fighting vampires. And there is a lot of cool stuff in the book that I'm disappointed didn't make it into the movie, like the Trinity, a triad of vampires who serve as personal protectors of Lincoln and his family.

However, a book has a bit more flexibility and can afford to be things that the movie can't. The book is Lincoln's life story, from birth to death and beyond. Such a thing would be undoable as a movie. Hell, I doubt the Lincoln biopic starring Daniel Day-Lewis is going to be a full account of his life. The purposes of the movie demand a specific story to tell, and for this movie that means Lincoln starting off as a humble vampire hunter and then badass vampire slaying president facing off against them in the Civil War.

Yes, they change facts and take things in completely different directions, but this sort of thing is nothing new in movies based on novels or history. And as a summer action movie, a central vampire villain would be expected by audiences.

All things considered, this movie is probably as good an adaption of the book as we could have hoped for.

Captain Craig wrote: View Post
How does the book end with Henry&Lincoln? Spoiler code I'm guessing if you don't mind spilling that.
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Old July 10 2012, 07:18 PM   #272
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Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

Thanks for the book details!
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Old July 10 2012, 07:36 PM   #273
Temis the Vorta
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Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

The scrunched feel of the movie made me wonder whether this story shouldn't have been a TV series instead. But I'm sure the vampire metaphor would have gotten annoying fairly quickly. Miniseries, maybe.
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Old July 11 2012, 11:33 AM   #274
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Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

As a southerner I refuse to watch or read anything thats paints Lincoln the butcher in a positive light.
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Old July 11 2012, 03:43 PM   #275
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Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

^^^
Not.Sure.If.Serious.
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Old July 11 2012, 05:42 PM   #276
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Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

Captain Craig wrote: View Post
^^^
Not.Sure.If.Serious.
Very serious he and Grant were war criminals who butchered and burnt civilian areas in the name of liberty, what a joke, plus Lincoln was a tyrant who suspended habeas corpus.
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Old July 11 2012, 05:55 PM   #277
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Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

Backs slowly out of the thread, without saying a word
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Old July 11 2012, 06:40 PM   #278
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Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

Never thought I'd say this, but if the movie pisses off a few Lincoln-haters, maybe it isn't a total loss after all.
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Old July 11 2012, 06:44 PM   #279
Captain Craig
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Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

Nelly334 wrote: View Post
Captain Craig wrote: View Post
^^^
Not.Sure.If.Serious.
Very serious he and Grant were war criminals who butchered and burnt civilian areas in the name of liberty, what a joke, plus Lincoln was a tyrant who suspended habeas corpus.
Oooookay.

This threads over.
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Old July 12 2012, 01:06 AM   #280
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Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

I will never understand why so many Americans have this blind desire to love Lincoln even in the information age.
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Old July 12 2012, 02:08 AM   #281
Temis the Vorta
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Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

Captain Craig wrote: View Post
Nelly334 wrote: View Post
Captain Craig wrote: View Post
^^^
Not.Sure.If.Serious.
Very serious he and Grant were war criminals who butchered and burnt civilian areas in the name of liberty, what a joke, plus Lincoln was a tyrant who suspended habeas corpus.
Oooookay.

This threads over.
Oh, it's only just begun!

And strangely enough, I can't actually find anything in that statement to object to. By the end of the war, the philosophy was total warfare and none too merciful. Lincoln did suspend habeas corpus.

But at least none of them were vampires.

Nelly334 wrote: View Post
I will never understand why so many Americans have this blind desire to love Lincoln even in the information age.
Cuz he was way better than the delusional and racist Confederacy? Just a guess.
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Old July 12 2012, 02:23 AM   #282
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Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
Captain Craig wrote: View Post
Nelly334 wrote: View Post

Very serious he and Grant were war criminals who butchered and burnt civilian areas in the name of liberty, what a joke, plus Lincoln was a tyrant who suspended habeas corpus.
Oooookay.

This threads over.
Oh, it's only just begun!

And strangely enough, I can't actually find anything in that statement to object to. By the end of the war, the philosophy was total warfare and none too merciful. Lincoln did suspend habeas corpus.

But at least none of them were vampires.

Nelly334 wrote: View Post
I will never understand why so many Americans have this blind desire to love Lincoln even in the information age.
Cuz he was way better than the delusional and racist Confederacy? Just a guess.
Glad you can be honest about Lincoln, slavery would have died off sooner then people think regardless, the industrial revolution combined with european attitudes (aka trading partners) would of doomed slavery faster then people seem to think.
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Old July 12 2012, 02:35 AM   #283
Temis the Vorta
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Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

Highly speculative. Keep in mind that the South didn't just keep slavery alive because of rational, economic motives but also because it formed the basis of their entire social system. That's why even poor whites who didn't own slaves supported the system - it gave them a place in society that wasn't at the bottom of the heap. Really, belief in slavery constituted an ideology, and people will defend ideologies even when their rational basis has been eclipsed.

OTOH, the ideology of Northerners - either abolitionist, or the many folks who simply believed in America and its great shining future, and didn't care one way or the other about slavery - could be just as merciless and uncompromising. The Civil War was a clash of ideologies, like WWII or the Cold War, and that kind of fight can become pretty horrible, because ideologies encourage people to believe anything is justified, because they are Right with a capital R.

The more I read about the Civil War, the more I'm grateful that Americans aren't remotely like that anymore. All the partisan nonsense going on now is merely a dim echo of what went on then.

And Europeans looooved that steady supply of cotton that supported their huge textile industries. Europe's elite classes were more sympatico with the Southern "artistocracy" than crass money-grubbing Yankees. No telling how they really would have factored into things.

So getting back to the topic at hand, the whole vampire metaphor is fun but extremely limited in how enlightening it is. What would be even more fun is to have someone tell the full and truthful story about the Civil War. It would be wild, hairy and incredibly dramatic. I keep hoping for a TV series on the topic, something that is brave enough not to just stick to Grant did this, and Lee did that, and it was all about armies maneuvering in the fields. Boooooring!
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Old July 12 2012, 02:47 AM   #284
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Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
Highly speculative. Keep in mind that the South didn't just keep slavery alive because of rational, economic motives but also because it formed the basis of their entire social system. That's why even poor whites who didn't own slaves supported the system - it gave them a place in society that wasn't at the bottom of the heap. Really, belief in slavery constituted an ideology, and people will defend ideologies even when their rational basis has been eclipsed.

OTOH, the ideology of Northerners - either abolitionist, or the many folks who simply believed in America and its great shining future, and didn't care one way or the other about slavery - could be just as merciless and uncompromising. The Civil War was a clash of ideologies, like WWII or the Cold War, and that kind of fight can become pretty horrible, because ideologies encourage people to believe anything is justified, because they are Right with a capital R.

The more I read about the Civil War, the more I'm grateful that Americans aren't remotely like that anymore. All the partisan nonsense going on now is merely a dim echo of what went on then.

And Europeans looooved that steady supply of cotton that supported their huge textile industries. Europe's elite classes were more sympatico with the Southern "artistocracy" than crass money-grubbing Yankees. No telling how they really would have factored into things.

So getting back to the topic at hand, the whole vampire metaphor is fun but extremely limited in how enlightening it is. What would be even more fun is to have someone tell the full and truthful story about the Civil War. It would be wild, hairy and incredibly dramatic. I keep hoping for a TV series on the topic, something that is brave enough not to just stick to Grant did this, and Lee did that, and it was all about armies maneuvering in the fields. Boooooring!
To the average poor white man, and most were poor, they didn't care about slavery. It was tariffs and northern domination of the federal government that also led to the civil war. State pride played a large part to, once they were at "war" with the Union, most men felt the natural desire to defend their homes.
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Old July 12 2012, 05:09 AM   #285
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Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

Great.

Another apologist for The Slaver's Rebellion.
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May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.
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