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Science and Technology "Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known." - Carl Sagan.

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Old July 8 2012, 07:20 PM   #106
Alidar Jarok
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Re: Ancient Aliens

There are practical reasons to not want to go on a craft that can travel that fast. It's not the 10 years or so it would take to travel to Alpha Centauri, but the thousands of years that would pass back on Earth that would prevent me from wanting to take the trip.
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Old July 8 2012, 07:21 PM   #107
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Re: Ancient Aliens

Lonemagpie wrote: View Post
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Reverend wrote: View Post
^The same way you move anything: Leverage, torque and the appropriate application of force.

I'm sure if aliens did visit, they would have had better things to do with their time than move rocks around for the crazy bald ape people.
I can't see how you can lift a 80 tonnes rock with a wooden leverage with out it breaking in to peaces.

We are talking about simple wood here, right?

Legion, i am just trying to understand. If you have some knowledge on how they did it, i would very much like to read about it as well.
Multiple levers, digging pits under it, earthen banks and ramps, A-frames, greased logs, leather and sinew, and lots of guys spreading the load at the same time...

Remember that wood has give, and compressability, which, when used correctly, means it won't break if you've set it all up right.

But if you really think it needs alien technology to move multi-ton stones... You'd be wrong. Here's one guy doing it with sticks and stones. He's not an alien.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oK1Rzch89Dw

Now, imagine there's a couple of hundred guys on the building site...
It does make some sense to me, an uneducated persone. I saw that video sometime ago, and was impressed by his techniques. But i couldn't help thinking that wood, he used, can only hold so much force applied to it befor it breaks. Because every wood breaks, if you applie enough force to it.
And i also saw he was spining thouse blocks on a very polished ground to reduce the friction force. And i think they missed one important part there: how he got that 19000 pound block on top of that wooden structure.

But it does feels like an alien technologies, in a way that its alien to us. Its good that we had Pyramids to try to rediscover it. But i wonder how much else is out there hidden, forgotten, alien to us?








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Old July 8 2012, 08:02 PM   #108
sojourner
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Re: Ancient Aliens

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
There are practical reasons to not want to go on a craft that can travel that fast. It's not the 10 years or so it would take to travel to Alpha Centauri, but the thousands of years that would pass back on Earth that would prevent me from wanting to take the trip.
At .1c a little over 40 years would pass on earth for you to reach Proxima Centauri at 4.2 light years distance. Time dilation on board ship at that speed would be negligible.

At .5c, 8 years would pass on earth while on board only about 7 years would pass.

I think you have some confusion as to how time dilation works.
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Old July 9 2012, 01:12 AM   #109
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Re: Ancient Aliens

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Which construction are you referring to? Not all of it was done through slave labor. The Pyramids were not, for example.
The great wall of China, for starters. There are also some pretty impressive structures in Manilla that -- according to legend -- were built from stones quarried in Spain and then loaded onto ships and transported to the Philippines for assembly by indentured servants.
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Old July 9 2012, 01:22 AM   #110
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Re: Ancient Aliens

sojourner wrote: View Post
Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
There are practical reasons to not want to go on a craft that can travel that fast. It's not the 10 years or so it would take to travel to Alpha Centauri, but the thousands of years that would pass back on Earth that would prevent me from wanting to take the trip.
At .1c a little over 40 years would pass on earth for you to reach Proxima Centauri at 4.2 light years distance. Time dilation on board ship at that speed would be negligible.

At .5c, 8 years would pass on earth while on board only about 7 years would pass.

I think you have some confusion as to how time dilation works.
I know how this is going to sound, but I've worked with the numbers often enough to hold the opinion that the relativistic time dilation thing is probably more of an illusion than an actual distortion of time; that is, if your kids on Earth were watching you with a telescope it would LOOK like time was slowing down on your ship relative to them, even though this would not actually be the case (so if you immediately turned around and flew back, your clocks would synch up again when you arrived).

Primarily this is because the equation holds true in both directions regardless of which one of them actually accelerates; both the traveler AND his point of origin will each observe the other's clock running faster relative to their own, so long as their relative velocity remains high. Meanwhile, it still takes you 40 years to get to Alpha Centauri no matter where you're measuring from.
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Old July 9 2012, 03:20 AM   #111
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Re: Ancient Aliens

Yeah, the point I was making is that it doesn't mystically make thousands of years pass on earth while you travel 4.2 lightyears to Proxima at .1c. Your relatives and friends (depending on age) would still be alive. Much older, but then so would you.
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Old July 9 2012, 04:25 AM   #112
Alidar Jarok
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Re: Ancient Aliens

So Planet of the Apes is a lie?
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Old July 9 2012, 06:31 AM   #113
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Re: Ancient Aliens

^I think I'll call you Bright Eyes.
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Old July 9 2012, 08:40 AM   #114
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Re: Ancient Aliens

sojourner wrote: View Post
Yeah, the point I was making is that it doesn't mystically make thousands of years pass on earth while you travel 4.2 lightyears to Proxima at .1c. Your relatives and friends (depending on age) would still be alive. Much older, but then so would you.
I'm not getting why this would be a problem anyway. It's not like they're going to turn around and come back.
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Old July 9 2012, 01:45 PM   #115
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Re: Ancient Aliens

Deckerd wrote: View Post
sojourner wrote: View Post
Yeah, the point I was making is that it doesn't mystically make thousands of years pass on earth while you travel 4.2 lightyears to Proxima at .1c. Your relatives and friends (depending on age) would still be alive. Much older, but then so would you.
I'm not getting why this would be a problem anyway. It's not like they're going to turn around and come back.
Why not? A ~20-year round-trip is not so long that people couldn't survive the return journey. Coming home to a big celebration would sure beat dying in an alien solar system (unless there are actual aliens there.)
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Old July 9 2012, 02:20 PM   #116
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Re: Ancient Aliens

Nobody's going to sign up for a gig like that. Wasting the best of your life in a tin can?
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Old July 9 2012, 02:35 PM   #117
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Re: Ancient Aliens

Deckerd wrote: View Post
Nobody's going to sign up for a gig like that. Wasting the best of your life in a tin can?
As opposed to wasting the best of your life doing a meaningless job in a cubicle (if you're relatively lucky)?
Or in a tin can at sea?
Or going on vacation in a tin can at sea?

There would be a LOT of volunteers for such a journey.
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Old July 9 2012, 03:18 PM   #118
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Re: Ancient Aliens

Deckerd wrote: View Post
Nobody's going to sign up for a gig like that. Wasting the best of your life in a tin can?
Bullshit. If I was younger, I'd sign up in a heartbeat.
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Old July 9 2012, 03:25 PM   #119
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Re: Ancient Aliens

Starbrow wrote: View Post

But it does feels like an alien technologies, in a way that its alien to us. Its good that we had Pyramids to try to rediscover it. But i wonder how much else is out there hidden, forgotten, alien to us?
I think anyone who is a science-fiction fan wants to believe.

But for all these wonders where aliens were suppose to help humans with the construction, we've yet to come across any artifacts where the origin can even be questioned. Not a single alien hammer or rivet or even bubble gum wrapper. Yet we find human artifacts.

Could aliens have visited us in our past? Sure. Did they help build many of the wonders from the ancient world? I don't think so.

For me to believe in it, they're going to have to come up with more than "humans couldn't have done it".

It also doesn't help your credibility when this guy is in one of your best experts:



He ain't Einstein.
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Old July 9 2012, 03:42 PM   #120
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Re: Ancient Aliens

BillJ wrote: View Post
Starbrow wrote: View Post

But it does feels like an alien technologies, in a way that its alien to us. Its good that we had Pyramids to try to rediscover it. But i wonder how much else is out there hidden, forgotten, alien to us?
I think anyone who is a science-fiction fan wants to believe.
As an sf fan I want to believe in a far more interesting universe than in "aliens" who travel interstellar distances simply to move stones around and shove probes up the locals' asses.

In fact the world I encounter outside my front door every morning is more marvelous, unexpected and inspiring than that.
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