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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old July 6 2012, 11:21 PM   #76
Cyke101
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Re: Why is Nemesis hated so much?

Jeyl wrote: View Post
Star Trek Nemesis went on to gross 2 billion dollars at the box office and Star Trek now surpasses Star Wars as the most successful and well known franchises in the world.
Star Trek Nemesis, or all Star Trek movies combined? I ask because the last time I checked, Nemesis made over $43 million domestically, combined total of $67 million worldwide, a far cry from $2 billion
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Old July 7 2012, 04:40 AM   #77
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Re: Why is Nemesis hated so much?

Cyke101 wrote: View Post
Jeyl wrote: View Post
Star Trek Nemesis went on to gross 2 billion dollars at the box office and Star Trek now surpasses Star Wars as the most successful and well known franchises in the world.
Star Trek Nemesis, or all Star Trek movies combined? I ask because the last time I checked, Nemesis made over $43 million domestically, combined total of $67 million worldwide, a far cry from $2 billion

Clearly he meant Nemesis on it's own. I don't care about the $43 million domestic Nemesis made. What matters is the $2 billion world wide Nemesis made in it's original theatrical run. Nemesis was the greatest film achievement of all time, and it's box office tally reflects that. Every decision the film makers made in that film were absolutely correct. But Nemesis's lasting legacy was it's sequels. Just as Wrath of Khan, Search for Spock and Voyage Home are often referred to as the "Genesis Trilogy" Nemesis and it's sequels are often called the "Exodus Trilogy".

 
Another incredibly feat achieved by Berman, Barid, and Logan, was the almost Lord of the Rings like way each movie in the Exodus trilogy surpassed it's predecessor. As we all know, Nemesis (2002) made $2 billion, it's sequel The Search for Data (2004) grossed $2.5 billion and the final Star Trek XII So Very Tired (2006) made an absolutely unbelievable $3 Billion.
 

As perfect as Nemesis was, each movie after it was even more perfect-er. My only complaint was the 1 hour and 5 minute sequence in The Search for Data where Picard, Worf and B4 drive the Argo around an arctic planet looking for Data's scattered pieces while shooting the local inhabitants. After he landed on it after he got blown up on the Scimitar. As cool as that sequence was I think it could have been shortened to about 45 minutes. But I appreciate the subtle way they brought Data back, just like they found B4 in pieces driving on a desert planet. They found Data in pieces driving on a arctic planet. Like George Lucas would say "it's like poetry it rhymes."
 

The only bad thing that happened was due to the massive success by the "Exodus Trilogy" Rick Berman achieved so much acclaim he ascended to higher plain of existence where he now lives as a state of pure energy as an almost Q-God like super being. Which meant that someone had to take over the Star Trek franchise. So J.J. Abrams took over and his only attempt at a Star Trek film was a complete failure. It was widely panned by critics and made by far the least amount of any Star Trek movie at the box office. But because Berman, the film making god he literally is, is unavailable, what with being a god and all. And Sturat Barid, after his success with three Star Trek movies realized he would never achieve that level of success again, retired from Directing. J.J. Abrams is all that’s available for the next movie.


I only hope J.J. doesn’t completely ruin the Trek franchise and make everyone forget the record breaking success the last three TNG films had.
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Old July 7 2012, 05:56 AM   #78
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Re: Why is Nemesis hated so much?

^ I completely agree with you.

The fifth and sixth TNG movies are so perfect that not only are they beyond criticism but words fail to do justice how stellar those two installments truly are.

This is the reason I think they're seldom discussed on TrekBBS. They're just films that have to be experienced. There's no description. No comparison.
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Old July 7 2012, 06:16 AM   #79
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Re: Why is Nemesis hated so much?

SchwEnt wrote: View Post
Oh there's so much to write...

I'll just stick to one thing--Shinzon.
He is ALL over the place.

He's dying, very soon. He needs Picard for some blood transfusion thing to survive. Shinzon will DIE without Picard's blood. Survival should be Job #1 for Shinzon. But it's not... in fact, he battles and otherwise endangers Picard's life and therefore his own.

He resents and hates the Romulans who imprisoned him in the mines. You'd think his beef would be against those who tormented him his whole life. But it's not.

Instead, he's got to destroy the Federation and wipe out the Earth. What's that all about? What's Shinzon's gripe against the Feds?

He's also got this great revolution to lead, his Reman brothers need to be freed from slavery and oppression. Add that to his to-do list.

Then he's got some personal grudge against Picard, where he can't be his own man unless Picard dies. So Picard must be destroyed for Shinzon to live, but first Picard must live to provide the transfusion to save Shinzon, then Picard can die.

Meanwhile, between dying and misplaced revenge motives and sweeping attacks against enemies and space battles, he finds time to mind-rape Troi, too. Is that just to add "evil" for the plot, or does Shinzon have other problems, too?

I don't know what the hell this guy is supposed to be about or what he needs to do or what's his plan or why.
And you know what else? If Picard & Co. had waited an extra week to arrive, the threat would have been over.


Joker wrote: View Post
Mage wrote: View Post

Fans can find the weirdest reasons to dislike what they love. So yeah, for some it will be very hard to be pleased by anything.
But you know what I find REALLY FUNNY? How the haters seem to be able to explain in detail the scenes they didn't like.
There's nothing remarkable about being able to explain why you didn't like something, particularly if it was at the time something you were really looking forward to liking.
Anyway, you're supposed to knock a critic for not knowing the material. You don't knock him for knowing it.

R. Star wrote: View Post
Sometimes I honestly just think Paramount would be well served hiring a "fan consultant" to proof-read scripts for glaringly obvious errors.
"Hire"? You think it would be necessary to pay money?


Sulu wrote: View Post
I think the whole cast and crew were feeling a little over reliant on egg soup ( a practice they picked up from the Shatner.) Egg soup is a serious depressant if taken in too big a dose. This contributed to the poor quality of the screenwriting and performances, resulting in a rather weak effort.
I had no idea spambots were so advanced these days.
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Old July 8 2012, 12:37 AM   #80
Cyke101
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Re: Why is Nemesis hated so much?

MrJ wrote: View Post
Cyke101 wrote: View Post
Jeyl wrote: View Post
Star Trek Nemesis went on to gross 2 billion dollars at the box office and Star Trek now surpasses Star Wars as the most successful and well known franchises in the world.
Star Trek Nemesis, or all Star Trek movies combined? I ask because the last time I checked, Nemesis made over $43 million domestically, combined total of $67 million worldwide, a far cry from $2 billion

Clearly he meant Nemesis on it's own. I don't care about the $43 million domestic Nemesis made. What matters is the $2 billion world wide Nemesis made in it's original theatrical run. Nemesis was the greatest film achievement of all time, and it's box office tally reflects that. Every decision the film makers made in that film were absolutely correct. But Nemesis's lasting legacy was it's sequels. Just as Wrath of Khan, Search for Spock and Voyage Home are often referred to as the "Genesis Trilogy" Nemesis and it's sequels are often called the "Exodus Trilogy".

 
Another incredibly feat achieved by Berman, Barid, and Logan, was the almost Lord of the Rings like way each movie in the Exodus trilogy surpassed it's predecessor. As we all know, Nemesis (2002) made $2 billion, it's sequel The Search for Data (2004) grossed $2.5 billion and the final Star Trek XII So Very Tired (2006) made an absolutely unbelievable $3 Billion.
 

As perfect as Nemesis was, each movie after it was even more perfect-er. My only complaint was the 1 hour and 5 minute sequence in The Search for Data where Picard, Worf and B4 drive the Argo around an arctic planet looking for Data's scattered pieces while shooting the local inhabitants. After he landed on it after he got blown up on the Scimitar. As cool as that sequence was I think it could have been shortened to about 45 minutes. But I appreciate the subtle way they brought Data back, just like they found B4 in pieces driving on a desert planet. They found Data in pieces driving on a arctic planet. Like George Lucas would say "it's like poetry it rhymes."
 

The only bad thing that happened was due to the massive success by the "Exodus Trilogy" Rick Berman achieved so much acclaim he ascended to higher plain of existence where he now lives as a state of pure energy as an almost Q-God like super being. Which meant that someone had to take over the Star Trek franchise. So J.J. Abrams took over and his only attempt at a Star Trek film was a complete failure. It was widely panned by critics and made by far the least amount of any Star Trek movie at the box office. But because Berman, the film making god he literally is, is unavailable, what with being a god and all. And Sturat Barid, after his success with three Star Trek movies realized he would never achieve that level of success again, retired from Directing. J.J. Abrams is all that’s available for the next movie.


I only hope J.J. doesn’t completely ruin the Trek franchise and make everyone forget the record breaking success the last three TNG films had.
Wellp, know when to hold 'em, and know when to fold 'em. You've convinced me, and I stand corrected!
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Old July 9 2012, 06:22 AM   #81
Romulus Prime
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Re: Why is Nemesis hated so much?

IMO, Nemesis is absolutely the worst Trek movie. It's mere existence personally offends me. Finally, the Romulans get center stage...

...and are IMMEDIATELY upstaged by the clone - Kid Picard - and his oogly-boogly henchmen, the Nosferatu-looking Remans, NEITHER of which are believable as aspects of the Romulan Empire. The writers basically made the Romulans out as idiots in this film (what Romulan in his right mind would follow a HUMAN clone or even a group of slaves, never mind arming them?) and the TNG cast are about as interesting as background props in a TOS episode.

Dune buggies
Another Data
Young Picard being bald and into married cougars (Troi)
Dumb bad-guy designs
Ugly Reman ship
New Romulan ship looks more like a Klink-Romulan hybrid
Bad guy wants to destroy earth for NO reason
Troi mind-rape
Worf back on the ship for no reason
Data's sacrifice being moot
Silly fight/battle scenes


I'd rather watch STV once a day for the rest of my life than watch Nemesis one more time, all the way through, and that's saying a lot. Now lemme tell you how I really feel...

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Old July 9 2012, 03:53 PM   #82
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Re: Why is Nemesis hated so much?

Romulus Prime wrote: View Post
IMO, Nemesis is absolutely the worst Trek movie. It's mere existence personally offends me.
This is how I feel about Insurrection.
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Old July 11 2012, 03:48 AM   #83
RAMA
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Re: Why is Nemesis hated so much?

Kuro Pit wrote: View Post
Seriously i enjoyed Nemesis. It had alot of good things in it. Though it did have some flaws (B4 for example) I thought it was a good movie, and the Best of all the TNG films.

Every once in awhile a poor, innocent, unsuspecting noob enters here and asks that question...opening up that can of worms yet again


Nemesis is underrated, but the movie that followed it is the real gem.
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Old July 11 2012, 03:49 AM   #84
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Re: Why is Nemesis hated so much?

Cyke101 wrote: View Post
Jeyl wrote: View Post
Star Trek Nemesis went on to gross 2 billion dollars at the box office and Star Trek now surpasses Star Wars as the most successful and well known franchises in the world.
Star Trek Nemesis, or all Star Trek movies combined? I ask because the last time I checked, Nemesis made over $43 million domestically, combined total of $67 million worldwide, a far cry from $2 billion

Wow $2 billion is way off, but through different sources it made about $120 million overall.
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Old July 11 2012, 07:23 AM   #85
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Re: Why is Nemesis hated so much?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Romulus Prime wrote: View Post
IMO, Nemesis is absolutely the worst Trek movie. It's mere existence personally offends me.
This is how I feel about Insurrection.
I can kinda-sorta deal with it, like...once every 3 years? But I fast-forward (my VHS tape XD) through several scenes. Certainly understand why so many people absolutely loath it. It's a very weird Trek movie that effs so much up with regards to both the story's potential and established aspects of the characters, nevermind the fact the "aliens" looked exactly like humans which = lazy shit.

My personal hatred of Nemesis (which I will never purchase in any form) is mostly because of how it depicted the Romulans. Maybe if Nemesis didn't have Remans or cougar-chasing, I could lump it in with Insurrection in the bin of "horrendous guilty pleasures." Alas, it's got both, and they make my heart and eyes bleed any time I see parts of it...which is basically only on RLM's review(s.) As much as some people despise NuTrek (I don't,) at least Abrams made Romulans the primary adversary AND deadly, not chumps who get bossed around by oogly-boogly slaves and a disintegrating human clone.


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Old July 15 2012, 10:30 AM   #86
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Re: Why is Nemesis hated so much?

I don't hate Nemesis. I don't like the story. It could have been done much better but with a director unfamiliar with TNG, what did you expect?
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Old July 20 2012, 10:45 PM   #87
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Re: Why is Nemesis hated so much?

Lack of familiarity with TNG had nothing to do with the failure of Nemesis.
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Old July 21 2012, 07:16 AM   #88
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Re: Why is Nemesis hated so much?

2 billion world wide? As much as I'd love to believe Trek was globally that popular, I'd like to see a source on that.
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Old July 21 2012, 01:04 PM   #89
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Re: Why is Nemesis hated so much?

R. Star wrote: View Post
2 billion world wide? As much as I'd love to believe Trek was globally that popular, I'd like to see a source on that.
A joke. I don't think it broke one hundred-million worldwide.
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Old July 23 2012, 10:13 AM   #90
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Re: Why is Nemesis hated so much?

.....people still were taking the 2 billion seriously?

When did this forum have a funectomy?!
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