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View Poll Results: Prometheus - Poll
A + 16 6.90%
A 27 11.64%
A - 32 13.79%
B + 43 18.53%
B 33 14.22%
B - 21 9.05%
C + 19 8.19%
C 8 3.45%
C - 15 6.47%
D 12 5.17%
F 6 2.59%
Voters: 232. You may not vote on this poll

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Old July 5 2012, 02:26 AM   #841
RAMA
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

roliver wrote: View Post
Yminale wrote: View Post
I don't think they were really "scientists", I think they were mercenaries or corporate security whose job was to deal with our Creators if they got hostile.
Seriously? Did the crew of Prometheus show any ability to "deal with" a hostile alien race posessing technology far beyond anything we could dream of?

Let's not forget Shaw's mind-numbingly stupid "no weapons" line as they geared up for there forst foray into the temple.

The crew was incompetent in both security and science aspects.

Let's look at this for one moment....as far as we know, no aliens had been discovered at this point in the Alien universe...they are on an advanced scientific ship with a scientific contingent. The crew are not military, so there is no reason to expect them to bring weapons any more than it was for the Apollo 11 astronauts to. They did in fact bring some, but why go on first contact with weapons?

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Old July 5 2012, 02:34 AM   #842
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

Professor Zoom wrote: View Post
flcat wrote: View Post
The dude who tried to pet the alien-snake thing reminded me of touchie-feelie nature-lover types who think you can walk up to a bear and pet it and then end up being featured in a volume of Faces of Death.
You mean the same dude who ran away from a dead body, that has been dead for 2000 years, that same dude? Maybe if they had been CONSISTENT with the stupidity maybe it wouldn't have been noticeable.
Let's look at this too...for one thing, a biologist wouldn't be fear free just because...they're a biologist! If you were surprised by human-like intelligent bodies you might get a shock yourself...but if you came up to a living creature, one that seemed like a harmless small animal, and it's your field, you might act a little bit different. The only real problem is that the biologist didn't go back AFTER being scared and investigate an obvious intelligent alien lifeform!!

I agree with flcat also, Steve Irwin got a bit of a surprise with a manta ray didn't he?

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Old July 5 2012, 06:14 AM   #843
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

Nightowl1701 wrote: View Post
That's because Ridley set it up as an intended trilogy - and you don't give all the answers in part 1 of a trilogy. But if a trilogy (or even a sequel) didn't happen, Ridley also wanted to frame things in such a way that the answers were right in front of you - you just had to bring your brain into the theater with you and "read between the lines."

<SNIP>

The main questions the two sequels now aim to answer are: Why did the Engineers decide to destroy us way back when? Do they still intend to destroy us? Were we crafted for some specific purpose, or did they make us "just because we could"? Were we a mistake?
For my money, most of the unanswered questions I have had little to do with the overall mythology of the Prometheus/Alien Universe, and everything to do with the arbitrary, motivation-less, or irrational characters who populated this film.

ETA:

Also, I'd like to propose that before the DVD is released, Ridley Scott should re-name Millburn and Fifield "Abbott and Costello."
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Old July 5 2012, 01:55 PM   #844
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

RAMA wrote: View Post
I love the controversy...

With just over 100,000 ratings, Prometheus seems to be doing quite well on IMDB, with a 7.6 rating. I don't think the perception that it wasn't well received by the audience is reality.
I'm not sure what any of this has to do with individual people here saying they didn't enjoy the film, but whatever. As I said, I have no problem with others enjoying it or preferring the lack of explanation for certain plot elements, I just don't like people making broad-sweeping judgments about those who didn't like it. Nor do I like such judgments being made about people who did enjoy it. It's irritating that some people can't seem to handle the subjective nature of film enjoyment.

RAMA wrote: View Post
The crew are not military, so there is no reason to expect them to bring weapons any more than it was for the Apollo 11 astronauts to.
I would have no problem with them being willing to accept the risk of going on a first contact situation without weapons in order to appear benign (though that's not really the Weyland Corp. way, hence having the guns). Lots of scientists are willing to risk their lives to advance our knowledge of the universe.

That being said, the comparison to Apollo 11 where there was no expectation of extraterrestrial contact whatsoever is a poor one.

RAMA wrote: View Post
Let's look at this too...for one thing, a biologist wouldn't be fear free just because...they're a biologist! If you were surprised by human-like intelligent bodies you might get a shock yourself...but if you came up to a living creature, one that seemed like a harmless small animal, and it's your field, you might act a little bit different. The only real problem is that the biologist didn't go back AFTER being scared and investigate an obvious intelligent alien lifeform!!

I agree with flcat also, Steve Irwin got a bit of a surprise with a manta ray didn't he?
Of course being a scientist doesn't eliminate fear.

But if you're willing to hop on an at least four-year mission with unknown classified objectives for a corporation that sees you as overhead more than a human being, all while riding in brand new stasis pods in a brand new ship using brand new propulsion technology overseen by an android with no emotional attachment to your well-being, and then are perfectly willing to follow the natural selection-rejecting faith trumps peer review scientist on an expedition into the giant skull temple from Hell and take your helmet off thirty seconds in, maybe seeing a dead body shouldn't be that scary?

He shouldn't have been too surprised by human-like dead bodies since by that point they had already been briefed that they were looking for human-like inhabitants (actually 100% human according to the movie, but somehow giant and blue-gray and suddenly able to walk around without a spacesuit on planets with atmosphere poisonous to humans if it's the end of the movie and he wants to kill them real bad). Also, there was no welcome wagon, it's a desolate planet, and it was over a millenia since any contact had been made with them, so the Engineers being dead should have been considered a distinct possibility before they ever left Prometheus.

Also, Steve Irwin wasn't a biologist. He was a wildlife expert to be sure with decades of personal experience from childhood, but the whole point of his show was for him to get up close and personal in dangerous situations with animals to make the show more interesting and entertaining for viewers. Unless Millburn was filming the world's most long-delayed reality-TV wildlife show, playing snake charmer just for fun with the unknown space cobra in an obvious threat display has about zero to do with being a legitimate biologist.
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Old July 5 2012, 03:51 PM   #845
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

RAMA wrote: View Post

Let's look at this too...for one thing, a biologist wouldn't be fear free just because...they're a biologist!
Yes, let's look at this....

He. Ran. Away. From a dead body. I'm not suggesting he shouldn't be afraid, surprised, nervous. He. Ran. Away.

And then... was more than willing to stick his finger into a completely ALIVE ALIEN LIFE FORM.

I'm not asking for Brave Biologist. Just a consistent character.


If you were surprised by human-like intelligent bodies you might get a shock yourself...but if you came up to a living creature, one that seemed like a harmless small animal, and it's your field, you might act a little bit different.
MIGHT. But let's look at the situation.... he's already run away, he's LOST, there's a deadly storm outside, you don't think the situation would put him into a high state of anxiety? But, NOW, SUDDENLY, he's calm and ok with first contact?

I'm sorry, I'm not buying it. He was a poorly written character. Period. It didn't bother your enjoyment, but it did mine.


The only real problem is that the biologist didn't go back AFTER being scared and investigate an obvious intelligent alien lifeform!!
No, the problem was HE WAS LOST. With the idiot Geologist who had the mapping probes. Again, MORE STUPID CHARACTERS, acting stupidly to advance the plot.


I agree with flcat also, Steve Irwin got a bit of a surprise with a manta ray didn't he?

RAMA
1. That's not particularly funny. He was someone's dad.
2. I some how doubt Steve Irwin would have tucked tail at the sight of a dead body, that's been dead for 2000 years. Next?
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Old July 5 2012, 10:14 PM   #846
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

RAMA wrote: View Post
I love the controversy... I really enjoyed the movie, there are definitely some flaws, but so far its the best summer movie Ive seen, I look forward to more "gap-filling" in the sequel(likely since it is approaching $300 million). Genuinely like a movie that doesn't explain everything to the audience!


With just over 100,000 ratings, Prometheus seems to be doing quite well on IMDB, with a 7.6 rating. I don't think the perception that it wasn't well received by the audience is reality.

RAMA
Well a 7.6 rating would put it around a B score, which is where a good chunk of votes are in this thread. So it seems as if we broadly agree with that rating.

And it's up to around US$289.3m worldwide.
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Old July 5 2012, 11:00 PM   #847
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
RAMA wrote: View Post
I love the controversy...

With just over 100,000 ratings, Prometheus seems to be doing quite well on IMDB, with a 7.6 rating. I don't think the perception that it wasn't well received by the audience is reality.
I'm not sure what any of this has to do with individual people here saying they didn't enjoy the film, but whatever. As I said, I have no problem with others enjoying it or preferring the lack of explanation for certain plot elements, I just don't like people making broad-sweeping judgments about those who didn't like it. Nor do I like such judgments being made about people who did enjoy it. It's irritating that some people can't seem to handle the subjective nature of film enjoyment.

RAMA wrote: View Post
The crew are not military, so there is no reason to expect them to bring weapons any more than it was for the Apollo 11 astronauts to.
I would have no problem with them being willing to accept the risk of going on a first contact situation without weapons in order to appear benign (though that's not really the Weyland Corp. way, hence having the guns). Lots of scientists are willing to risk their lives to advance our knowledge of the universe.

That being said, the comparison to Apollo 11 where there was no expectation of extraterrestrial contact whatsoever is a poor one.

RAMA wrote: View Post
Let's look at this too...for one thing, a biologist wouldn't be fear free just because...they're a biologist! If you were surprised by human-like intelligent bodies you might get a shock yourself...but if you came up to a living creature, one that seemed like a harmless small animal, and it's your field, you might act a little bit different. The only real problem is that the biologist didn't go back AFTER being scared and investigate an obvious intelligent alien lifeform!!

I agree with flcat also, Steve Irwin got a bit of a surprise with a manta ray didn't he?
Of course being a scientist doesn't eliminate fear.

But if you're willing to hop on an at least four-year mission with unknown classified objectives for a corporation that sees you as overhead more than a human being, all while riding in brand new stasis pods in a brand new ship using brand new propulsion technology overseen by an android with no emotional attachment to your well-being, and then are perfectly willing to follow the natural selection-rejecting faith trumps peer review scientist on an expedition into the giant skull temple from Hell and take your helmet off thirty seconds in, maybe seeing a dead body shouldn't be that scary?

He shouldn't have been too surprised by human-like dead bodies since by that point they had already been briefed that they were looking for human-like inhabitants (actually 100% human according to the movie, but somehow giant and blue-gray and suddenly able to walk around without a spacesuit on planets with atmosphere poisonous to humans if it's the end of the movie and he wants to kill them real bad). Also, there was no welcome wagon, it's a desolate planet, and it was over a millenia since any contact had been made with them, so the Engineers being dead should have been considered a distinct possibility before they ever left Prometheus.

Also, Steve Irwin wasn't a biologist. He was a wildlife expert to be sure with decades of personal experience from childhood, but the whole point of his show was for him to get up close and personal in dangerous situations with animals to make the show more interesting and entertaining for viewers. Unless Millburn was filming the world's most long-delayed reality-TV wildlife show, playing snake charmer just for fun with the unknown space cobra in an obvious threat display has about zero to do with being a legitimate biologist.
Apollo 11 and Prometheus were both scientific missions, Prometheus in fact had the added feature of being a civilian mission, so the comparison is quite valid. No one really expected or believed they would find anything living OR dead on the mission who went on it with only a few exceptions. It doesn't surprise me they would be shocked to find dead bodies or holograms!

There are no broad sweeping judgements only that numbers say that quite a large number of people appear to like the movies, it doesn't invalidate that we all have some problems with the movie, but the evidence was there with a large sampling and I posted it.

If I go into a dark house, one that's creaky and old but I have no expectation of seeing a body of any kind because the house is abandoned, I just might be alarmed to find a dead body...
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Old July 5 2012, 11:32 PM   #848
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

Professor Zoom wrote: View Post
No, the problem was HE WAS LOST. With the idiot Geologist who had the mapping probes. Again, MORE STUPID CHARACTERS, acting stupidly to advance the plot.
The funny/sad thing is, they don't even do that. Once Millburn & Fifield run off, you could easily edit them out of the rest of the film without hurting the story at all. Janek would still get laid, the pups still would've picked up strange life signs, Holloway was going back out there the next morning (after the storm) no matter what, they still would've immediately turned around and went back when Holloway started mutating (we'd meet the hammerpedes then instead and somebody else can get killed/mutated in order to attack the ship later), David still would have found the Engineer, etc. etc.

Just so you know I'm not blind to this movie's flaws.
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Old July 6 2012, 11:54 AM   #849
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

Nightowl1701 wrote: View Post
The first of these civilizations, the Sumerian Empire, is the closest to the Engineers' own (including written/spoken language).
Nice theory, although I'm not sure that Lindelof et all put that much thought into it. One nitpick of mine that might be incorrect - my understanding is that Sumerian was a language isolate, unrelated to the proto Indo-European language in which David addressed the Engineer.
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Old July 6 2012, 04:34 PM   #850
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

I'm so late to this discussion. I've spot read a few pages and share some of the concerns/praises for the film. It does look like it's going to pass it's production budget in the coming week or two and that is always a good thing.

I've seen it twice now. Upon my first watching I had some head scratching but mostly from the characters. After talking about it with a friend who had also seen it separately with his wife we went together. Feeling a second viewing would either raise or lower our opinion of the greater movie as a whole.

Grade: B

Neither of us has read opinions on what is going on in the movie. I've been too wrapped up honestly in TA, TASM and TDKR to keep up with Prometheus speculation.

The Engineer at the start is essentially the "seeder" on planet Earth with their DNA(our human chromosomes). He takes something separate from the gooey oil that would later infect Charlie--yes or no? That's one of our questions. Both destroyed the body so if they were the same thing the only difference was that Charlie's acted slower thus allowing for his altered state to impregnate Shaw. We are going with they were separate substances despite that not being spelled out.

Fassbender's David was a joy to watch. He keeps the film moving and his use as a sounding board for "meeting your maker" and asking him "why" were great. He was essentially Data from TNG to a large extent. While no motivation is specifically given for why he infects Charlie we surmise it was part of his instruction from Weyland. If for no other reason than to verify what they found. Otherwise David is just seeking to do harm to Charlie for no reason other than he was a bit of a douche. Weyland was looking for his creator though so surely David didn't think the oily bio substance was that?
Skipping ahead though I'd love to see the sequel where David and Shaw are the Odd Couple searching for the Engineers home world.

Why is Captain Vickers named Vickers at all if indeed she is the human, biological daughter of Weyland? Married then divorced was the easiest answer but if I had a stake in a company that large with so many resources I'd reassume my maiden name. Is she an android--we are essentially hoping so as she was a bit of a tragic character and liked how Charlize played her. Tough, yet also vulnerable and a bit coy. Such as when she tells Janek her quarters 10 minutes. Which raises the point can these androids have sex? I mean Janek teased that idea afterall by asking if she was real. David doesn't have a last name and neither did Bishop so sadly we think Vickers was indeed human--and now dead. Note to self--when trying to outrun something falling behind you don't run parallel, run in a perpendicular manner.

Milburn and Fifeld. Ok, these two are the biggest WTF characters in the movie. You mean to tell me that the guy who brings the mapping equipment is the one that gets lost? Really? We can see gps blips of each character on the 3D map on Janeks bridge so how come Janek is surprised they aren't back. Why at some point doesn't Janek or someone on the bridge say "Hey, I notice the team is coming back but the signal reads Milburn and Fifeld are still inside the structure."
Also, these two guys are terrified of a "glitch" coming from the west that indicates a life form. A glitch has them wetting themselves. However, when an 8 foot alien cobra shows up it's "so cute, so beautiful" let me fuck with it. WHAT.THE.HELL.

I really liked Naomi as Dr. Shaw and how Ridley Scott was tackling the larger existential questions mankind has been asking of itself from day one. This film wasn't perfect but I'm hoping that's by design since I did read read at some point that he's crafted this into a 3part saga. I liked the exchange with Charlie and Shaw about perhaps she should take the cross off now. Her answer that "who created them then" was a great answer imo. My takeaway is that somewhere the answer still lies in a creator/engineer.

The creature she removed from her abdomen in my opinion is a proto-facehugger. She and Charlie essentially were used for the phase one of getting us to what we know of as an Alien. Then the Engineer was used to "birth" the first proto-Alien, although I don't guess it matters since according to the film our DNA is a match. Not similar like Apes to Man but a match. I think this distinction is important. My friend and I felt that this is why there is no missing link in the chain that many keep looking for.

I and my friend are hoping the sequel gets a go ahead cause I'd like to see what Mr.Scott has in store next for this phase of the universe he's revisited.
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Old July 6 2012, 07:10 PM   #851
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

Captain Craig wrote: View Post
The Engineer at the start is essentially the "seeder" on planet Earth with their DNA(our human chromosomes). He takes something separate from the gooey oil that would later infect Charlie--yes or no? That's one of our questions. Both destroyed the body so if they were the same thing the only difference was that Charlie's acted slower thus allowing for his altered state to impregnate Shaw. We are going with they were separate substances despite that not being spelled out.
... or reprogrammable nanomachines that seem to have an unknown agenda - a collective, distributed consciousness formed by the sum of their simpler processing engines - perhaps not.

There was also that green goop that was probably biological material from some other world.

Milburn and Fifeld. Ok, these two are the biggest WTF characters in the movie. You mean to tell me that the guy who brings the mapping equipment is the one that gets lost? Really? We can see gps blips of each character on the 3D map on Janeks bridge so how come Janek is surprised they aren't back. Why at some point doesn't Janek or someone on the bridge say "Hey, I notice the team is coming back but the signal reads Milburn and Fifeld are still inside the structure."
Also, these two guys are terrified of a "glitch" coming from the west that indicates a life form. A glitch has them wetting themselves. However, when an 8 foot alien cobra shows up it's "so cute, so beautiful" let me fuck with it. WHAT.THE.HELL.
I so hope Ridley Scott edits those twats out of the director's cut. Just leave it a mystery what happened to them until one shows up as a zombie, and they find the other one sporting an anus instead of a mouth. You could also leave Vickers' arrangment of a triste with Janek on the cutting room floor.
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Old July 6 2012, 08:18 PM   #852
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

I watched it twice. I was not sure what I thought upon the first viewing; other than, the c-section from Hell was killer.

Overall, I feel it was pretty, but it left me with more questions than satisfaction.

1. Why did the crew not seem to know what they were doing/going for? Some had a clue. Vickers, David, and the two love birds seemed to know. Others kept guessing, which was odd to me.
2. I thought Frick and Frack as I mentally dubbed the Geologist and the Biologist were funny but....Why in the world would a Biologist run from a body he could dissect and study? I could understand it if it was a Botanist and the Geologist but not a Biologist.
3. Why show the death of the "architect" at the beginning of the film. Granted, it was cool, but from my viewing, needless. It did not seem to drive the narrative. Are we to assume he committed suicide because he was infected?
4. Why did Shaw's boyfriend (He annoyed me so much I refuse to remember his name.) just give up once he realized no one was home? Did he as a scientist not postulate that the big aliens might have gone away? He seemed more dumb jock than scientist. His role seemed totally off to me.
5. Why have Vickers' father/David's creator along for the ride? Again, it seemed more shock than necessary. (On a side note - Why hire Guy Pearce and make him old via makeup when there are great older actors out there. - I would have laughed myself silly if they had cast Peter O'toole.)
6. Why are the architects so hell bent on destroying Earth as the movie implied. Is it because we share the same DNA and they fear the mutations/aliens getting out of the facility?

It seemed a narrative mess overall. It was trying to be smart and clever but ended up being just meh as a result.

I thought it was pretty and NR did a great job as Shaw. MF also get kudos for his performance as David.
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Old July 7 2012, 12:23 AM   #853
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

Kosh Naranek wrote: View Post
Why did Shaw's boyfriend (He annoyed me so much I refuse to remember his name.) just give up once he realized no one was home?.
More importantly, why would he assume there was "no one home" after exploring one structure? We saw other structures as they were landing, but the crew never acknowledges them.

There could be a whole Engineer city down there, but since they made no attempt to survey the planet, we end up with Halloway getting all mopey for no logical reason.

It's like aliens landing at a remote pyrimid in Egypt, finding nothing but some dusty mummies, and giving up.
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Old July 7 2012, 06:02 PM   #854
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

A couple more thoughts on on the WTF scientists.

First I reiterate that there is no proof that these so called scientist are real scientist. They still could be mercenaries/security and the Prometheus may have been secretly armed but only Weyland or David knew the full extant (they were able to hide a very old billionaire).

Second, these people may literally be the bottom of the barrel. Like today, maybe people in the future don't take the idea of Ancient Alien seriously. Even if you offered them a ton of money most competent scientists aren't going to risk their reputations.

Third, there is mental diagnosis called Adjustment disorder which is basically the inability to deal with new circumstances. Most cases lead to a temporary depression but in a few extreme cases it can lead to psychosis. Plus who knows what hibernation does to the mind.
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Old July 7 2012, 06:41 PM   #855
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

Yminale wrote: View Post
A couple more thoughts on on the WTF scientists.

First I reiterate that there is no proof that these so called scientist are real scientist. They still could be mercenaries/security and the Prometheus may have been secretly armed but only Weyland or David knew the full extant (they were able to hide a very old billionaire).
LOL. Worst. Mercenaries. Ever.
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