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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old July 6 2012, 01:19 PM   #1351
Jeff O'Connor
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Oh man, I've got so much to catch up on. I'll just silently lurk this thread until I'm caught up... aw, drat, I can't resist just posting once.
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Old July 6 2012, 04:50 PM   #1352
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Phew, caught up to the end of the second season's reviews. Stellar stuff as usual, TGB. Will read more tonight.

Thanks for the graph on O'Brien's moobs. That really adds a new dimension to a timeless show.
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Old July 6 2012, 05:52 PM   #1353
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Hey Jeff, here for your bi-annual visit, I see.

Ln X wrote: View Post
Hey TheGodBen are you sober enough to start reviewing again?
I've eased myself off the alcohol by going back on the meth. Does that count as sober?


Things Past (***½)

Garak, bored of hemming trousers in his prison cell, decides to take a day off to attend a conference and Sisko, Dax, and Odo decide to go with him because, hey, who doesn't want to spend time with Garak? On the way back, from the conference, the crew meet the ghost of Christmas past and it decides to send them on a mind-bending trip into the guilt-centre of Odo's brain.

Here's the thing, the writers wanted to do a story about Odo's dark past, but didn't want to do a flashback episode because they're clichéd, and they didn't want to do a time-travel episode because they're also clichéd, so they came up with some complicated magic in order to do the episode the way they wanted to do it. This both hurts and helps the episode, it hurts it because the set-up is so crazy that it's hard to buy into, and the early parts of the episode, which should have been full of mystery and intrigue, are undercut by the fact that all of this is explained by Dr Bashir. We also get the added added complication that injuries sustained by the characters in Odo's brain are replicated by their bodies in the real world due to the awesome power of imagination, which leaves us with the cliché that they. Might. Die! (But almost certainly wont.) The episode didn't need that, it's just a cheap way of adding tension to the crazy situation.

But the craziness does help the episode later as events get more surreal, and we get some weird twists and unusual imagery. Overall, the story isn't bad, perhaps a bit slow to start but it picks up later, and the revelation that Odo isn't as perfect as he wants everyone to think he is an interesting extra layer to his character. It ends with a callback to Necessary Evil, which just served to remind me of how that was a better episode, in part because the set-up wasn't as convoluted.
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Old July 6 2012, 05:56 PM   #1354
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Everyone complains about Worf being a jerk in Let He Without Sin... but really so was Dax. The whole episode she was acting very selfish the entire episode too. First she should probably know taking Worf, the Klingon glacier to a pleasure planet is a bad idea. She forced her idea down Worf's throat, then complained non-stop the whole episode when surprise... Worf didn't like it. To escelate the situation she's acting in a way she has to know would deliberately annoy Worf. I'm not excusing Worf's behavior by any means, but really what did you expect from him?

The Fundamentalists... would have been so much more interesting if they weren't like those enviromental nutcases sabotaging SUV's to protest car pollution. Any point they might have had to make gets lost in their idiocy of their methods.

Really the most amusing part of the episode is Quark acting completely in character. Which naturally(and thankfully) once she goes off with the girls, that's the last we see of him for awhile. I like Quark but I don't need to see him in the middle of an orgy.

Things Past... yeah Garak got out of prison awfully quick didn't he? But the Federation penal system is so generous maybe they just let him out on good behavior. "Now be good and don't try and genocide any planets again and start an interstellar war."

I applaud DS9 for avoiding the flashback and overly Trek cliche of time travel. The execution here was awkard to say the least and you just have to smile and nod at it. It's nice to see Odo isn't the saint of justice like the show so often makes him out to be, but a character with a darker element. Honestly if I was giving him a D&D alignment, I'd make him Lawful Neutral. He pretty much just wants order no matter who's running the show. I think he was remorseful of his actions just as much because he knew it would upset Kira not to mention stain his perfect record as to the morality of it.

Really I don't see why Kira has the right to be upset at the end given how Necessary Evil ended and she had her darker elements.
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Old July 6 2012, 06:21 PM   #1355
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I love Odo's abject panic and desperate plea's to himself to preform a more thorough investigation on the 3 men.
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Old July 6 2012, 06:26 PM   #1356
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I liked Things Past a lot... But one odd thing is Garak being quite ungarakky. He doesn't do much in the episode, pickpocketing one guard and hacking into the computer for relatively useless information, that's all, and he gets off only one or two memorable lines. He's a lot less useful and less snarky than he usually is, which leads me to wonder if the part was originally written for Chief O'Brien or Dax (presumably with Kira in place of where Dax was in the eventual episode) before they figured Garak was always a good thing to have in your episode.
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Old July 6 2012, 06:30 PM   #1357
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
I've eased myself off the alcohol by going back on the meth. Does that count as sober?
Having recently lurked over at the Gaming sub-forum, I discovered that Godben is also a Civilization player. It then occurred to me that these relapses are actually codes for the games he's playing at a given time. Gander:

Mass Effect 3 = Alcohol
Everything during a binge seems wonderful, emotionally gratifying, and you can't wait to do it again. Yet, at the end of it all, you're left feeling miserable and utterly depressed. And those last moments? Somehow can't remember, and you suspect it's better that way.

Civilization V = Meth
As a recovered Civ2 addict, I know what these games are like. Always jonesing for one more round, one more round, one more hit, one more hit. And this can go on for days without realizing it. Still, if Civ2 was like digital crack, Civ5 has got to be the ultra-addictive upgraded shit.
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Last edited by Sykonee; July 6 2012 at 07:01 PM.
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Old July 6 2012, 10:35 PM   #1358
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine



Meth is easily the way forward - glad to see you're recovering! I think the new ending for Mass Effect seemed to help the transition from one substance to another, by not being a more substantial schange that it needed to be.

Addictions for everyone!

Things Past is almost a poor man's Necessary Evil, but only almost. There's still plenty to like about it, even if the framing device is somewhat clumsy.
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Old July 6 2012, 10:55 PM   #1359
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Sykonee wrote: View Post
Mass Effect 3 = Alcohol

Civilization V = Meth
Hmm, I'd say that Civilization is more like heroin, you just sort of relax and enter an other-worldly state for hours on end, completely losing track of the world around you, but never really feeling in any danger.

Minecraft is the meth of gaming. It consumes your time in a similar way, but you're constantly on edge throughout the experience, you always feel like there's something behind you watching everything you do, waiting for the right moment to pounce. It also feeds the player's obsessive compulsive tendencies.
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Old July 7 2012, 01:46 AM   #1360
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

As far as Garak in this episode...I would have thought enduring the treatment the Bajorans did would've taught him a lesson--but no. I hate to say this...but I would've liked to see him suffer more. He deserved it.
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Old July 7 2012, 02:03 AM   #1361
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Haha, yes, TGB. Been busy with college and Mass Effect 3 and Civilization V. Go figure that I happen upon a comparison between those games and drugs. Truly, I've embarked upon a standard college experience.

Up to the third season now. Happy to see you reviewing another episode on this page! Can't wait to be caught up.
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Old July 7 2012, 02:15 AM   #1362
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Nerys Ghemor wrote: View Post
As far as Garak in this episode...I would have thought enduring the treatment the Bajorans did would've taught him a lesson--but no. I hate to say this...but I would've liked to see him suffer more. He deserved it.
Well there's morality for you. Really Garak isn't so much an evil person as a person who lacks any morals whatsoever. Evil people usually know what they're doing is wrong on some level, even if they try and justify it. Dukat's a good example of this for example. Good, evil, right, wrong, these are just labels others use to define themselves and often enough limit themselves, to Garak.

Garak had the same outlook when he was in power and when he was in exile, and even in this episode when he's in the proverbial slave pens. One side had the power and used it. That was just the way it worked. He would apply that power ruthlessly if need be when he had it. Likewise he expected the people who had it in this episode to apply it equally ruthlessly.

Really the only two people Garak seemed to break this mindset over were Tain and Mila. His parents, and what a screwed up family that was. As for Garak deserving to suffer? Well I'm sure there are varying opinions on that. I will say one of Star Trek's themes was, that humanity was supposed to be beyond such base desires.
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Old July 7 2012, 02:23 AM   #1363
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Not Deep Space Nine's themes. DS9 can be summed up by Quark's statement in AR-558, that once you take away humanity's creature comforts, they are really just as base as anybody else.
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Old July 7 2012, 10:21 AM   #1364
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Sykonee wrote: View Post
Civilization V = Meth
As a recovered Civ2 addict, I know what these games are like. Always jonesing for one more round, one more round, one more hit, one more hit. And this can go on for days without realizing it. Still, if Civ2 was like digital crack, Civ5 has got to be the ultra-addictive upgraded shit.
To true, to true...

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Nerys Ghemor wrote: View Post
Not Deep Space Nine's themes. DS9 can be summed up by Quark's statement in AR-558, that once you take away humanity's creature comforts, they are really just as base as anybody else.
That is probably my favorite lines in all of DS9 but didn't Quark also say something about long periods of stress, pressure and lack of sleep as well?
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Old July 7 2012, 12:55 PM   #1365
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
Hmm, I'd say that Civilization is more like heroin, you just sort of relax and enter an other-worldly state for hours on end, completely losing track of the world around you, but never really feeling in any danger.

Minecraft is the meth of gaming. It consumes your time in a similar way, but you're constantly on edge throughout the experience, you always feel like there's something behind you watching everything you do, waiting for the right moment to pounce. It also feeds the player's obsessive compulsive tendencies.
Man, good thing I never gave Minecraft a try.

(just noticed you started the Minecraft thread in Gaming as well ...the theory sustains!)
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