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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate Raise the Dawn.
Outstanding 82 70.69%
Above Average 25 21.55%
Average 3 2.59%
Below Average 3 2.59%
Poor 3 2.59%
Voters: 116. You may not vote on this poll

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Old July 4 2012, 06:04 AM   #196
rfmcdpei
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Re: Typhon Pact: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Christopher wrote: View Post
CaptainDonovin wrote: View Post
I also like it that even though there were chances in here to start a new war that it didn't happen...
Yeah, I wonder what those readers who assume the Typhon Pact storyline is inevitably leading to war will make of this. This was the Cuban Missile Crisis for the UFP and the Pact, bringing them to the very brink of war, yet both sides avoided stepping over that brink and worked together to resolve things peacefully. Although I'm sure those readers will stubbornly insist that Kamemor is an aberration and is sure to be assassinated soon, etc. etc. Never mind that she's successfully purged the Romulan government of those working against her peacemaking agenda and has transcended the Tzenkethi's intended role for her as a weak, easily manipulated leader.
One element common to much of the best Trek fiction about the Romulans is not only the extent to which humans and Romulans actually do have a lot in common, but the ways in which Romulan hostility to the Federation is highly contingent on--among other things--domestic factors. In certain ways, the Romulans are like the Cardassians, people who live in ways we understand in societies like our own that just happen to be going through hard times.

In the Rihannsu novels, Ael t'Rllaillieu was able to successfully lead a revolution against the Tricameron based substantially on popular outrage against a government that was badly mishandling its affairs, this mishandling including an attempted genocide against Earth. (Something similar may have happened in the main Trek verse, depending on how much more of the Rihannsu mythos has been/will be incorporated.) In Nemesis, similarly, Shinzon's stated plans to commit genocide against Earth (and, too, to return to Romulus and teach his fellow coup-planners better manners) led to the collapse of the plot and intervention on the Federation's behalf by one of the plotters.

As it turns out, in the Trekverse since Nemesis Romulan politics have been so unstable that the old elite with its paranoid imperialistic concerns has been pretty much wiped out. Opinion among the oligarchy and the population at large is very strongly in favour of stability and peace--understandably so, after the past five years of catastrophic instability--and Kamemor and her people seem to have taken charge of all of the key institutions of state.

Federation-Romulan detente seems more likely than not, IMHO. This is almost certainly going to be a very good thing when the Hobus supernova occurs: a Romulan Star Empire not strongly inclined to thinking the Federation responsible for the destruction of its homeworld is a Romulan Star Empire that isn't going to try to retaliate in kind. (It may be noteworthy that Nero's attempt to destroy Vulcan in 2387 is the only attempt at retaliation against the Federation by a Romulan. Then again, that may just be this reader's limited perspective.)
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Old July 4 2012, 02:47 PM   #197
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Re: Typhon Pact: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

^Well, Nero didn't blame the Federation for deliberate destruction, but for betraying its promise to save Romulus. Arguably that sense of betrayal would be more strongly felt toward a nation that the Romulans had grown to trust as a friendly power. "You said you'd help us, but you didn't really care, did you?" Nero probably won't be the only Romulan who feels that way. But probably other Romulans won't be able to get their hands on supplies of red matter and thus won't be able to act out their anger so destructively. And the surviving Romulan government would probably be more inclined to accept whatever aid they can get, including Federation aid (though with the Pact there to come to their assistance, they may not feel they need UFP help).
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Old July 4 2012, 05:47 PM   #198
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Re: Typhon Pact: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Christopher wrote: View Post
^Well, Nero didn't blame the Federation for deliberate destruction, but for betraying its promise to save Romulus. Arguably that sense of betrayal would be more strongly felt toward a nation that the Romulans had grown to trust as a friendly power. "You said you'd help us, but you didn't really care, did you?"
We saw that kind of thing with Andor, true.

I guess that a lot depends on what sort of relationship Nero had with Spock. Countdown presented Nero's hatred of Spock being something very personal, a product of their early collaboration in trying to deal with Hobus. In such a scenario, Nero going after Spock while the other Romulans don't would make sense.

Nero probably won't be the only Romulan who feels that way. But probably other Romulans won't be able to get their hands on supplies of red matter and thus won't be able to act out their anger so destructively.
Much depends on what Nero departed with. Countdown has him being absurdly well-armed even by late 24th century standards, his mining vessel retrofitted with Borg technology. But then, as has been said repeatedly, Countdown is not considered canonical in the novelverse. (Conceivably a late 24th century mining vessel could be quite well-armed relative to mid-23rd century vessels, even warships.) So who knows how exceptional his armaments are?

And the surviving Romulan government would probably be more inclined to accept whatever aid they can get, including Federation aid (though with the Pact there to come to their assistance, they may not feel they need UFP help).
Much also depends on the sorts of continuity. If Kamemor does escape Romulus and there's continuity in government, then relations would be stabler than if the Romulan government was decapitated.

(So, in sum, all this speculation is basically useless since we don't know what will be established in the novelverse?)
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Old July 4 2012, 10:28 PM   #199
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Re: Typhon Pact: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Further to my ongoing issues with Amazon UK regarding actually getting this book, they've now emailed me to say 24th August...
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Old July 4 2012, 10:39 PM   #200
DS9forever
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Re: Typhon Pact: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Amazon UK list it here as being released on the 19th:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_...raise+the+dawn
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Old July 5 2012, 01:22 AM   #201
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Re: Typhon Pact: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Quick question, in which novel was it covered that the Progenitor had died and the Great Link had dispersed?
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Old July 5 2012, 01:26 AM   #202
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Re: Typhon Pact: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

the_wildcard wrote: View Post
Quick question, in which novel was it covered that the Progenitor had died and the Great Link had dispersed?
Worlds of Deep Space Nine: The Dominion: Olympus Descending, also by DRGIII.
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Old July 5 2012, 03:39 PM   #203
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Re: TP: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Here are some random thoughts I jotted down while reading RtD:

What’s with the Shakespeare quotes? I’m curious to know why some writers insert quotes from classic literature between at the beginning of chapters and sections.

I’m glad DRG III explained why Sela doesn’t change her appearance to be more Romulan, because it pushes her strive harder. Her appearance hadn’t made sense to me considering her rejection of her humanity but now it does.

Nechayev is still alive so I guess Blind Man’s Bluff didn’t happen.

I like that Bacco references events from Serpents Among Ruins. Then John Harriman came to visit Vaughn? He’s still alive? Where has he been hiding out? I wish we could have seen that visit documented.

The book refers to the UFP logo having “a pair of stylized wheat stalks”. Aren't these supposed to be olive branches?

Both Kira and Kassidy get visions from the Prophets. Kira’s vision and the subsequent events show the prophets are able and willing to protect Sisko’s family. Kassidy’s vision says she has to let him follow his own path and if she doesn’t let him he won’t come back which implies if she lets him keep his Starfleet career, they can still be together. Why do neither of them tell Sisko of their visions? Kira’s vision could assure him of divine protection for his family.

How is Weyoun still able to be cloned? In the show, Weyoun said he would be the last after an alpha quad cloning facility was destroyed. He was pretty affected by this.

DRG III sure seems to enjoy using the word “’fresher”. It is used an a lot in this book.
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Old July 5 2012, 04:43 PM   #204
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Re: TP: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

MatthiasRussell wrote: View Post
Nechayev is still alive so I guess Blind Man’s Bluff didn’t happen.
Haven't read BMB, what happens to Nechayev? How does this effect PAD's New Frontier "book continuity" with the rest?
MatthiasRussell wrote: View Post
How is Weyoun still able to be cloned? In the show, Weyoun said he would be the last after an alpha quad cloning facility was destroyed. He was pretty affected by this.
I thought the same thing when reading that part. Did I miss/ forget an explanation in any of the previous books (Worlds of DS9, etc.)?
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Old July 5 2012, 04:50 PM   #205
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Re: TP: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Maybe somewehere in the gamma quadrant there were hidden weyoun clones hiding out on some planet . He sure seemed to have no problem reappearing when you least expected him to. Just when you thought he was gone for good.
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Old July 5 2012, 05:46 PM   #206
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Re: TP: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I think Olympus Descending explained how Weyoun was cloned again.
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Old July 5 2012, 05:47 PM   #207
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Re: TP: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

The current Weyoun, Weyoun 9, was previously seen in Rising Son, Olympus Descending, and Warpath. It was only the Alpha Quadrant cloning facility that was destroyed; there were presumably copies of Weyoun's genetic/personality template back home in Dominion space.
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Old July 5 2012, 05:53 PM   #208
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Re: TP: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Christopher wrote: View Post
The current Weyoun, Weyoun 9, was previously seen in Rising Son, Olympus Descending, and Warpath. It was only the Alpha Quadrant cloning facility that was destroyed; there were presumably copies of Weyoun's genetic/personality template back home in Dominion space.
Thanks Christopher. It's been so long since I read those that I totally forgot about it.
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Old July 5 2012, 07:18 PM   #209
chris_masters5
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Re: TP: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Relayer1 wrote: View Post
Further to my ongoing issues with Amazon UK regarding actually getting this book, they've now emailed me to say 24th August...
DS9forever wrote: View Post
Amazon UK list it here as being released on the 19th:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_...raise+the+dawn

Well I've just recieved an email from Amazon UK today saying my copy's just been dispatched. Go figure!
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Old July 5 2012, 07:53 PM   #210
Relayer1
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Re: TP: Raise the Dawn by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

chris_masters5 wrote: View Post
Relayer1 wrote: View Post
Further to my ongoing issues with Amazon UK regarding actually getting this book, they've now emailed me to say 24th August...
DS9forever wrote: View Post
Amazon UK list it here as being released on the 19th:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_...raise+the+dawn

Well I've just recieved an email from Amazon UK today saying my copy's just been dispatched. Go figure!
Me too - go figure indeed !
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