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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old July 1 2012, 08:07 PM   #31
Cyke101
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Re: Which serise was Worf the best in?

Iamnotspock wrote: View Post
DS9.

He was great on TNG, but I think he was used far more effectively on DS9. One thing that always impressed me about First Contact is that it's the DS9 Worf who returns to the Enterprise. It would have been easy to have him just slot back into his old relationships with that crew, but instead we have a Worf who has learned from Sisko, and challenges Picard in a way I don't think he would have on TNG. It's the perfect example of his development as a character on DS9, and it's a shame that in INS and (particularly) NEM we seemed to get TNG Worf again.
*jaw drops* You are my hero.

It would've been nice to have a scene where, after Worf and Picard blow up at each other, we see Picard grumpily heading back to the conference room, audibly muttering under his breath, "Goddamn that Sisko, first he rags on me about his wife, now he turns Mr. Woof against me..."
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Old July 1 2012, 08:29 PM   #32
St. William Of Levittown
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Re: Which serise was Worf the best in?

You know, Iamnotspock, it's funny you should mention First Contact and DS9's influence on how Worf comes accross....

I recall, J.M. Dillard's novelization of the film more directly emphasizes exactly that. A nice moment--in the book, when Riker asks, "You do remember how to fire phasers...?" to which, instead of frowning in bewilderment at Will (as he does in the film), Worf deadpans, "The green button...right?"

Riker muses that Worf's time on DS9 was clearly good for his friend.
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Old July 1 2012, 10:08 PM   #33
MrJ
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Re: Which serise was Worf the best in?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Photon wrote: View Post

It just shows to go ya, that DS9's writings were so superior to that of all other Trek.
Which of course is why DS9 is less popular than Voyager.

No one ever said that the American TV audience is smart.
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Old July 1 2012, 11:51 PM   #34
BillJ
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Re: Which serise was Worf the best in?

You guys just have to realize DS9 matches the Trek formula. A third of it is good, a third of it is average and a third of it is terrible.

Been like that going all the way back to 1966.
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Old July 2 2012, 01:07 AM   #35
sonak
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Re: Which serise was Worf the best in?

BillJ wrote: View Post
You guys just have to realize DS9 matches the Trek formula. A third of it is good, a third of it is average and a third of it is terrible.

Been like that going all the way back to 1966.

I disagree with this. DS9 was probably the most consistent and even of the Trek series. There are a lot less really terrible episodes in it than there are in others, because there's no equivalent to the first two seasons of TNG, the first two seasons of ENT, the third season of TOS, etc.
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Old July 2 2012, 08:28 AM   #36
Mage
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Re: Which serise was Worf the best in?

BillJ wrote: View Post
You guys just have to realize DS9 matches the Trek formula. A third of it is good, a third of it is average and a third of it is terrible.

Been like that going all the way back to 1966.

Why should be 'realize' something that's only your opinion? To a lot of people, DS9 has a lot more then only a third that's good.
Some people go on and on about Enterprise. Me, kind meh. Others think Voyager is the best Trek ever. Me, kinda feel like you feel about DS9/Trek in general.

Just because you feel a certain way about DS9, or even Trek in general, doesn't mean others must do that as well.
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Old July 2 2012, 08:46 AM   #37
R. Star
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Re: Which serise was Worf the best in?

Mage wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
You guys just have to realize DS9 matches the Trek formula. A third of it is good, a third of it is average and a third of it is terrible.

Been like that going all the way back to 1966.

Why should be 'realize' something that's only your opinion? To a lot of people, DS9 has a lot more then only a third that's good.
Some people go on and on about Enterprise. Me, kind meh. Others think Voyager is the best Trek ever. Me, kinda feel like you feel about DS9/Trek in general.

Just because you feel a certain way about DS9, or even Trek in general, doesn't mean others must do that as well.
How dare you presume to imply that I can't ram my opinion down other's throat. I don't think you should even think like that!
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Old July 2 2012, 11:30 AM   #38
Eric Cheung
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Re: Which serise was Worf the best in?

BillJ wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Deep Space Nine, hands down. But then again, every single TNG character would have become so much more in the hands of the DS9 writers.
Funny, since most of DS9's writers came from TNG...
In the DS9 companion there's an anecdote about how Ronald D. Moore joined the writing staff of DS9. He was actually all eager to join Voyager since he wanted to try being on the staff of a show from the beginning. When asked to join DS9 he said, "I donwanna" but I think it was either Michael Piller or Jeri Taylor who urged him to do so saying "You'll learn a lot working for Ira Stephen Behr." And I would say that he did. Basically, my point is that people grow and change.

Another point I'd make, and I apologize for the gross over-simplification, is that TNG had a nice balance of science fiction and character development. It tended to be the writers who wrote more of the character-based stories went to DS9 (Ronald D. Moore, Rene Echevarria, Hans Beimler), while the more high-concept writers went to VOY (Joe Menosky, Brannon Braga). I think that in such a marriage of styles the character-based writers tend to be more creatively successful after the divorce.
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Old July 2 2012, 11:45 AM   #39
Paul Weaver
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Re: Which serise was Worf the best in?

Rush Limborg wrote: View Post
Perhaps, perhaps not. But say what you will--on DS9, we did NOT witness the pathetic running gag of the tough bad guy knocking out Worf.
I cannot defeat this Klingon. All I can do is kill him; and that no longer holds my interest.

Most of DS9 season 4 seemed to be written without any idea that Worf was around, perhaps the scripts were outlined before they know Worf was joining, perhaps the writers didn't have any idea. Once Season 5 started, with his interactions with Dax and Martok expanding on the tenuous link with OBrien, Worf became much better.
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Old July 2 2012, 10:20 PM   #40
Kira Nerys
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Re: Which serise was Worf the best in?

Worf was great in both series and,brought something different to both.As far as stories written for the character ,DS9 did it better.
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Old July 2 2012, 10:45 PM   #41
Iamnotspock
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Re: Which serise was Worf the best in?

Cyke101 wrote: View Post
*jaw drops* You are my hero.
I'm honoured.

Cyke101 wrote: View Post
It would've been nice to have a scene where, after Worf and Picard blow up at each other, we see Picard grumpily heading back to the conference room, audibly muttering under his breath, "Goddamn that Sisko, first he rags on me about his wife, now he turns Mr. Woof against me..."


Rush Limborg wrote: View Post
You know, Iamnotspock, it's funny you should mention First Contact and DS9's influence on how Worf comes accross....

I recall, J.M. Dillard's novelization of the film more directly emphasizes exactly that. A nice moment--in the book, when Riker asks, "You do remember how to fire phasers...?" to which, instead of frowning in bewilderment at Will (as he does in the film), Worf deadpans, "The green button...right?"

Riker muses that Worf's time on DS9 was clearly good for his friend.
Ah, yes. I have it somewhere but I haven't read it in years.
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Old July 3 2012, 07:18 AM   #42
Enterprise is Great
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Re: Which serise was Worf the best in?

Paul Weaver wrote: View Post

Most of DS9 season 4 seemed to be written without any idea that Worf was around, perhaps the scripts were outlined before they know Worf was joining, perhaps the writers didn't have any idea. Once Season 5 started, with his interactions with Dax and Martok expanding on the tenuous link with OBrien, Worf became much better.
I think that they purposely downplayed Worf in season 4 becaause they didn't want DS9 to suddenly become the Worf show. On Voyager when they added Seven of Nine she dominated the show and I think the DS9 crew didn't want that happening on DS9.
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Old July 3 2012, 08:58 AM   #43
Mage
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Re: Which serise was Worf the best in?

Enterprise is Great wrote: View Post
Paul Weaver wrote: View Post

Most of DS9 season 4 seemed to be written without any idea that Worf was around, perhaps the scripts were outlined before they know Worf was joining, perhaps the writers didn't have any idea. Once Season 5 started, with his interactions with Dax and Martok expanding on the tenuous link with OBrien, Worf became much better.
I think that they purposely downplayed Worf in season 4 becaause they didn't want DS9 to suddenly become the Worf show. On Voyager when they added Seven of Nine she dominated the show and I think the DS9 crew didn't want that happening on DS9.
Also, keep in mind, Worf was an established character already. Seven still had to be fleshed out (no pun intended). Sure, not all Niners might have seen TNG, but most would have, and most would have been annoyed to death if they decided to make it the Worf-show for a character most people already now.
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Old July 3 2012, 02:57 PM   #44
BillJ
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Re: Which serise was Worf the best in?

Enterprise is Great wrote: View Post
Paul Weaver wrote: View Post

Most of DS9 season 4 seemed to be written without any idea that Worf was around, perhaps the scripts were outlined before they know Worf was joining, perhaps the writers didn't have any idea. Once Season 5 started, with his interactions with Dax and Martok expanding on the tenuous link with OBrien, Worf became much better.
I think that they purposely downplayed Worf in season 4 becaause they didn't want DS9 to suddenly become the Worf show. On Voyager when they added Seven of Nine she dominated the show and I think the DS9 crew didn't want that happening on DS9.
Wouldn't Micheal Dorn have joined DS9 at least a year before Jeri Ryan joined Voyager? DS9 premiered in January 1993 and Voyager premiered in January of 1995. Both characters joined their respective series during their fourth season.
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Old July 3 2012, 04:06 PM   #45
sonak
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Re: Which serise was Worf the best in?

BillJ wrote: View Post
Enterprise is Great wrote: View Post
Paul Weaver wrote: View Post

Most of DS9 season 4 seemed to be written without any idea that Worf was around, perhaps the scripts were outlined before they know Worf was joining, perhaps the writers didn't have any idea. Once Season 5 started, with his interactions with Dax and Martok expanding on the tenuous link with OBrien, Worf became much better.
I think that they purposely downplayed Worf in season 4 becaause they didn't want DS9 to suddenly become the Worf show. On Voyager when they added Seven of Nine she dominated the show and I think the DS9 crew didn't want that happening on DS9.
Wouldn't Micheal Dorn have joined DS9 at least a year before Jeri Ryan joined Voyager? DS9 premiered in January 1993 and Voyager premiered in January of 1995. Both characters joined their respective series during their fourth season.
Yeah, you kind of took my response. That couldn't have been their thinking because Dorn joined DS9 in the Fall of '95, whereas Jeri Ryan joined Voyager in the Fall of '97.

But they might just have decided on their own as a policy not to let Worf dominate the show. He was much better integrated than Seven of Nine was.
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