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Old July 2 2012, 01:55 AM   #256
WalkerBait
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Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

Mr. Adventure wrote: View Post
Kelthaz wrote: View Post
The characters were underdeveloped, the writing was mediocre, and the action scenes were uninspired.
You didn't think that scene with the horses was a little inspired?
That scene was absurd.
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Old July 2 2012, 02:20 AM   #257
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Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

Silly, that's not how you spell awesome.
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Old July 2 2012, 04:14 AM   #258
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Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

Mr. Adventure wrote: View Post
Kelthaz wrote: View Post
The characters were underdeveloped, the writing was mediocre, and the action scenes were uninspired.
You didn't think that scene with the horses was a little inspired?
The setting was inspired, but it didn't do anything with it. With the exception of what's his name chucking the horse at Abe, which was pretty cool, the fight scene could have been on solid ground and nothing would have changed. The same is true of the final battle on the train. Like I said, the movie followed an awesome check list of things to do (fight scene on top of moving horses), but the care was not given to each bullet point to make the scene memorable beyond it's admittedly cool premise.

Abe swung his axe, the vampire lunged at him, Abe dropped his axe and picked up, then swung it a few more times, etc. Yawn!
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Old July 2 2012, 04:28 AM   #259
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Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

You could reduce any action scene to that if you want.

Hot-wired photon torpedo? Just a heatseeking missile...yawn
Fighting in mechs? They could've just brawled on the ground...yawn

Besides the horses, seeing vampires fighting union forces was novel as well. Maybe not "inspired" but not a complete retread.
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Old July 2 2012, 02:40 PM   #260
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Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

I saw this one last night. I had read the novel, and enjoyed it greatly, so I was a bit predisposed to like the movie.

And I did. Like the novel, it could have been a one-joke campfest, but they cared enough to strike the proper balance between the silliness of the concept and the seriousness of the setting and themes. And it worked overall because the idea of vampires as dark forces in Civil War-era America actually works surprisingly well with existing history.

It wasn't perfect, as some of the action scenes dragged a bit (I'm among those who wasn't a fan of the horse stampede fight) but I found it a solid B+.

It's a shame that two of my favorite movies this summer - ALVH and John Carter - have both flopped.
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Old July 3 2012, 05:06 AM   #261
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Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

I hear you, CaptJimboJones. It makes me a little sad that ALVH didn't perform well. I found it so enjoyable and charming.
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Old July 5 2012, 02:39 AM   #262
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Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

So my friends had to ditch on Spidey today, looks like I'll be seeing that Friday now. However, since I was already out and had a free Regal ticket I went and saw this earlier in the afternoon.

Grade: B-/C+

I'm going to talk in full on SPOILERS so back out now or skip to next post.
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Still here then....

When you go in knowing this is an OTT historical genre bender it allows certain liberties. Still, I expect certain things to remain true within the confines of the universe itself.

I was a bit surprised on how much of an origin was told for this but it worked out well I suppose. Set up his sidekick Will pretty well at any rate.

Our lead vampire Adam having essentially been around when the Hebrews were slaves and built the monuments to Romans using Christians as slaves and entertainment etc, etc was a nice nod to tying the slavery theme into the context of the film.

This is the first place I can recall that the idea of a Vampire being unable to kill another is used. Maybe in some book out there it's used but this is my first exposure to that idea.
I was glad to again see the explanation for Silver as being tied to Judas again. Haven't seen that in awhile.

I liked Dominic Cooper's Henry, the vampire out for blood against Adam. I liked Mary Elizabeth Winstead and especially Alan Tudyk as Stephen Douglas.

I liked the cinematography and period piece attire. For the most part the F/X gets a 90% grade from me.

So what are my questions with the film?
At one point Mary Todd is the fiancee of Stephen Douglas, it's mentioned. At what point does that end cause suddenly Abe is courting her then 15min later or so they are married. Something on the cutting room floor? Despite I know Abe has to end up with her I need context within this story to get there. I actually felt Stephen Douglas might be revealed as a vampire.

I'm so very over the idea of vampires being daywalkers. Yes the film alludes to a type of early 19th century sunscreen but only Henry is seen even using any and then only once.

Staying as true to the idea of Abe being a normal human, even one trained by a vampire, he's not gifted with super human abilities. My biggest gripe is the stampeding bronco scene where Abe jumps from horseback to horseback. He's still just human. At least when Henry is training him we know he whacks at that tree a dozen times before "one" big blow fells it.

The editing at time felt a bit uneven for me. Making it seemed rushing to get the film to the next "moment". Again, material on the cutting room floor perhaps?

Overall theme for Vampire Nation: So was Adam using the South as his foothold to take over the young nation thus humoring the idea of slavery as a dividing point to take over the North, thus the country. Also, were the humans in the South (at least in leadership posts) aware of this. We get that brief scene with Jefferson Davis (President of Confederacy) talking to Adam in which he tells Jefferson "you'll get as many of my people as you need". So a conspiracy between some Southern leaders and Adam? Adam using them as an ends to a means.
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Old July 5 2012, 03:03 AM   #263
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Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

A lot of you questions are dealt with in the book.

Captain Craig wrote: View Post
So what are my questions with the film?
At one point Mary Todd is the fiancee of Stephen Douglas, it's mentioned. At what point does that end cause suddenly Abe is courting her then 15min later or so they are married. Something on the cutting room floor? Despite I know Abe has to end up with her I need context within this story to get there. I actually felt Stephen Douglas might be revealed as a vampire.
The book goes into quite a bit of detail regarding Lincoln, his relationship with Mary Todd, and Stephen Douglas. For the most part, they stay true to actual events, though Douglas does eventually get targeted by the vampires.

I'm so very over the idea of vampires being daywalkers. Yes the film alludes to a type of early 19th century sunscreen but only Henry is seen even using any and then only once.
In the book, sunlight is not lethal to vampires. "Younger" vampires have a greater sensivity to it, but the older a vampire the greater their resistance to sunlight. Henry is a lot older in the book than the movie implies.


Staying as true to the idea of Abe being a normal human, even one trained by a vampire, he's not gifted with super human abilities. My biggest gripe is the stampeding bronco scene where Abe jumps from horseback to horseback. He's still just human. At least when Henry is training him we know he whacks at that tree a dozen times before "one" big blow fells it.

The editing at time felt a bit uneven for me. Making it seemed rushing to get the film to the next "moment". Again, material on the cutting room floor perhaps?
It is first and foremost an action movie. This sort of stuff is to be expected.

Overall theme for Vampire Nation: So was Adam using the South as his foothold to take over the young nation thus humoring the idea of slavery as a dividing point to take over the North, thus the country. Also, were the humans in the South (at least in leadership posts) aware of this. We get that brief scene with Jefferson Davis (President of Confederacy) talking to Adam in which he tells Jefferson "you'll get as many of my people as you need". So a conspiracy between some Southern leaders and Adam? Adam using them as an ends to a means.
According to the book, yes, the South's leaders knew full well they were working with vampires.
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Last edited by The Wormhole; July 5 2012 at 01:34 PM.
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Old July 5 2012, 03:07 AM   #264
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Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

^^^^
Thanks for helping me out.
Sounds like they had to chip away at the book to make a certain runtime--it shows imo.
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Old July 5 2012, 03:35 AM   #265
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Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

Somebody posted this pic on Facebook.
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Old July 5 2012, 08:27 PM   #266
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Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

Gryffindorian wrote: View Post
Somebody posted this pic on Facebook.
Aw DAMN! Box office gold, right there! I suppose there's no hope of a sequel?

Dorian Thompson wrote: View Post
I hear you, CaptJimboJones. It makes me a little sad that ALVH didn't perform well. I found it so enjoyable and charming.
I was rooting for a better result, too, but it's not like there could be a sequel (in all seriousness), and I'm not generally a fan of historical mashups irrespective of what they're mashing up. If there's no Pride & Prejudice & Zombies, I won't lose any sleep about it.

In retrospect, I just enjoyed the movie more than I would or should have, if I hadn't been a big Civil War buff. Objectively speaking, there were some problems, such as the lackluster vampires - I don't think any of them really came across as being epic villains in the least. They were barely even interesting. And the slo-mo vampire fights are pretty hokey by this point.

What worked for me were some of the performances: Benjamin Walker, Anthony Mackie and Jimmi Simpson in particular. That, plus the setting, plus the fact that it's not yet another comic book superhero movie, was enough to make it one of my three favorite movies this year so far (the only three I've bothered to see in a theater - the other two being The Avengers and The Hunger Games).
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Old July 9 2012, 02:43 PM   #267
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Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

I hate to be one of those people, but today I am going to do it. The movie was no where near as good as the book. MAJOR BOOK SPOILERS -----

The movie to me gutted the character of Henry. Granted Henry was more of a puppeteer even in the book, but the setup of his character was just plain cooler in the book IMHO. Henry saves Abe as Abe is attacking a vampire - not Barts. He does take care of him and nurse him back to health, but in the book Abe knows precisely what Henry is off the bat. In the book, Henry was a settler from the Lost Colony. Virginia Dare and company die because there was a vampire in their midst. Henry does lose his wife was result and becomes one of the undead. In the books, however, vampires can kill one another and Henry joins league with other vampires that are out to eradicate their own kind.

I did not like the addition of Adam and his sister. In the book, the vampires were more of a faceless threat and I liked that. They were puppeteers using the historical characters to do their bidding. The plantation plot was much better played in the book, as Abe was lured to the plantation in hopes of killing Jefferson Davis.

The vampires cannot kill eachother bit was necessary for the movie I suppose. In the book Henry has other vampires serving to help keep Abe safe as president. When Abe is trapped in the plantation house, it is Henry and the arrival of more vampires that help turn the tide in the fight.

I suppose the greater motivations of the vampires fighting for one side or the other would have bogged the movie down. But the characters came off very one-note compared to their outing in the book.

However, I can see how the movie with its shortened time frame, used the narrative to focus on the vampire hunting escapades of Abe and his friends.

But as a person that studies history, the lesser use of the historical characters and the introduction of Adam and his sister as the big bad, just brought down the story for me.

I liked the use of Jefferson Davis, Stephen Douglas, and the intricate inverweaving of history and fiction.

The horse stampede scene was ridiculous.

What I liked about the film...

I thought the movie did a good job of capturing how the vampires were using slavery to setup a new empire for themsevles in the South.

I loved the battle scenes. As a Southerner, I thought the author's use of the Rebel Yell as the inhuman cry of vampires was genius, and the movie captured the helplessness of the soldiers when faced with an enemy bolstered by vampires in the ranks. However, I thought the whole silver subplot weakened the story. In the book I took it that the determination and will of the people to overcome evil was what won the day - not flinging Granny's silver at the foe. (I don't recall the vampire/silver link in the book.)

The death of the little boy was heart rending in the movie and the book. The book did a great job of Mary's descent into madness as she lost her kids and then Abe. If memory serves only Tad reached adulthood.

The actor playing Abe did a fabulous job. He was just superb.

The actions scenes did play well.

The movie attempted to highlight Abe's pathos and I think they did a pretty good job of showing how the war weighed on him. The fate of a nation on his soldiers combined with the death of his sons pulling Abe down was a really compelling part of the book.

Major Spoiler for the end of the book......


I don't know why they did not continue the story at the end of the movie like they did the book? At the end of the book, Henry turns Lincoln. Lincoln then fights on until the 1960s to make sure that the last remnants of the vampires are wiped from the USA.

I also liked the subplot in the book that John Wilkes Booth is a vampire. Then Henry helps hunt down JWB and kill him.

Ah well.....

I liked the addition of Harriet Tubman. (I don't recall her being in the books, but my memory is often treacherous.)

I also liked that like Mary Todd Lincoln got to be a little badass. In the books she never knew.
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Old July 9 2012, 09:10 PM   #268
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Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

I did not like the addition of Adam and his sister. In the book, the vampires were more of a faceless threat and I liked that. They were puppeteers using the historical characters to do their bidding. The plantation plot was much better played in the book, as Abe was lured to the plantation in hopes of killing Jefferson Davis.
I haven't read the book yet, but I did feel that having the vampires be the baddies rather than regular humans who were practicing slavery (that's not bad enough?) was a bit off-putting, as though human evil has always been the fault of vampires throughout history. That lets humans off the hook way too much! I wasn't sure how to make the connection better, but refraining from personifying vampires sounds like a good idea. Just keep them a nebulous evil force out there, and make the conflict be essentially between humans.

The ending from the book about Henry and Lincoln, wow. I can see why they decided not to do that. That's just too nutty to work in a movie.
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Old July 9 2012, 10:19 PM   #269
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Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

How does the book end with Henry&Lincoln? Spoiler code I'm guessing if you don't mind spilling that.

Having not read the book I actually expected to get to the assassination and Henry turns Abe just before death. JWBooth would be revealed as a vampire.
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Old July 9 2012, 10:51 PM   #270
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Re: Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter produced by Tim Burton in the work

I forgot how to do spoiler code and my previous post was a spoiler mess, but......






In the book - the vampires seem to be able to turn someone after death.


Henry helps hunt down JWB, (a vampire) and then turns Abe.

The whole setup of the book is Henry approaching an author in modern times and getting him to write the story of Abe (all of it).

The book was a good little read that for me rarely dragged.
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