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Old July 1 2012, 05:58 PM   #31
Takeru
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Re: In zombie films, how come nobody has ever...

Tiberius wrote: View Post
Not really accurate though. The ZSG refutes each one of the points.
I can refute the ZSG:

It's made up!

Using the ZSG to refute claims in other zombie fiction is ridiculous, it's like me using my Star Trek Technical Manual to explain that space travel in Stagate shouldn't work.
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Old July 1 2012, 07:19 PM   #32
the G-man
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Re: In zombie films, how come nobody has ever...

Takeru wrote: View Post
Using the ZSG to refute claims in other zombie fiction is ridiculous, it's like me using my Star Trek Technical Manual to explain that space travel in Stagate shouldn't work.
I love this quote so much I want to buy it presents and take it to meet my parents. It's the perfect blend of logic and nerdism. And I mean that with sincere respect and affection.
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Old July 1 2012, 07:34 PM   #33
Trek4Ever
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Re: In zombie films, how come nobody has ever...

I remember in 28 Days Later, one of the characters was donning full riot gear complete with helmet and shield. I wondered why didn't everyone else put on similar clothing. One question: would kevlar body armor work? Can they be modified to cover the entire body?
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Old July 1 2012, 10:20 PM   #34
LaxScrutiny
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Re: In zombie films, how come nobody has ever...

Kevlar is very difficult to cut or tear, depending on how many layers or threads per inch. It is flexable fabric though, and a zombie has super strong jaws so the bone could be crushed even if the skin isn't broken.
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Old July 1 2012, 10:40 PM   #35
Scout101
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Re: In zombie films, how come nobody has ever...

Tiberius wrote: View Post
Not really accurate though. The ZSG refutes each one of the points.
Not an accurate description of a made-up plague?

At least that guide started from the point of imagining the zombie plague being something that happened to actual people. THe ZSG thing you quoted appears to have started with 'magic zombies' as its base. It refutes the first few points by saying that zombies are magically toxic...for some reason...

Because of...?
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Old July 2 2012, 08:53 AM   #36
Tiberius
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Re: In zombie films, how come nobody has ever...

Takeru wrote: View Post
Tiberius wrote: View Post
Not really accurate though. The ZSG refutes each one of the points.
I can refute the ZSG:

It's made up!

Using the ZSG to refute claims in other zombie fiction is ridiculous, it's like me using my Star Trek Technical Manual to explain that space travel in Stagate shouldn't work.
Trek and Gate are two different universes. But zombie movies and the ZSG are both talking about zombies.

But anyway, a lot of it is just common sense.

Given that zombies can infect other life forms with the zombie virus and given that they are insanely strong, predation on them is unlikely to work well.

The point about zombies freezing solid and rethawing in the cold rather than being destroyed by the cold still stands.

Likewise, my fourth point also still stands. The zombie disease, whatever causes it, will be transmitted by any infectious material, unless we are talking about voodoo zombies.

And likewise, zombies are regularly depicted as being able to withstand vast amounts of damage. When was the last time you saw a zombie killed by a shotgun blast to the belly?

And my point about it being fairly difficult to kill a Z also stands. Headshots and destruction of the brain are regularly depicted as the only way to reliably kill a Z. And that's not the easiest thing to do.
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Old July 2 2012, 08:55 AM   #37
Tiberius
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Re: In zombie films, how come nobody has ever...

Scout101 wrote: View Post
Tiberius wrote: View Post
Not really accurate though. The ZSG refutes each one of the points.
Not an accurate description of a made-up plague?

At least that guide started from the point of imagining the zombie plague being something that happened to actual people. THe ZSG thing you quoted appears to have started with 'magic zombies' as its base. It refutes the first few points by saying that zombies are magically toxic...for some reason...

Because of...?
Have you actually read it? It makes it very clear that the zombies it describes are NOT magic.
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Old July 2 2012, 03:51 PM   #38
Scout101
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Re: In zombie films, how come nobody has ever...

It dismissed the first 3 (valid) points by saying that Zombies are toxic...for some reason. Essentially just saying they're magic. Where's that come from?

Did YOU read it?

The link you're trying to debunk treats Zombies as infected humans, with the same essential weaknesses, and moreso in some cases on account of being reanimated dead flesh. Yes, very strong, and a wound that kills a human only slows a Zombie down, but still starts with a human.

Whereas your link starts with making up new facts based on nothing, and then using them to debunk other things. Not a point in its favor.

As for your last points: why wouldn't predators have a field day? Zombies can't (usually) run, can't use weapons, aren't great tactical minds. Mostly just stumbling around. Why wouldn't large animals have unlimited free meals, once they realize the humans aren't shooting anymore, aren't ambushing or laying traps? Might not be 100% kill rate, but think the wolves/dogs/lions/etc have a field day there with free (rancid) meat.

Assuming no other zombie magic, and that zombies are just reanimated corpses that are strong and not reactive to pain/major damage, seems like the points in that link work a lot better than what you're quoting in ZSG...
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Old July 2 2012, 04:10 PM   #39
Sindatur
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Re: In zombie films, how come nobody has ever...

Scout101 wrote: View Post
It dismissed the first 3 (valid) points by saying that Zombies are toxic...for some reason. Essentially just saying they're magic. Where's that come from?

Did YOU read it?

The link you're trying to debunk treats Zombies as infected humans, with the same essential weaknesses, and moreso in some cases on account of being reanimated dead flesh. Yes, very strong, and a wound that kills a human only slows a Zombie down, but still starts with a human.

Whereas your link starts with making up new facts based on nothing, and then using them to debunk other things. Not a point in its favor.

As for your last points: why wouldn't predators have a field day? Zombies can't (usually) run, can't use weapons, aren't great tactical minds. Mostly just stumbling around. Why wouldn't large animals have unlimited free meals, once they realize the humans aren't shooting anymore, aren't ambushing or laying traps? Might not be 100% kill rate, but think the wolves/dogs/lions/etc have a field day there with free (rancid) meat.

Assuming no other zombie magic, and that zombies are just reanimated corpses that are strong and not reactive to pain/major damage, seems like the points in that link work a lot better than what you're quoting in ZSG...
The reason for it saying "for some reason", is because that is one thing that does vary from movie/book to movie/book. Sometimes, it bio-warfare that infects them, sometimes it's moon rocks, sometimes, it's just unexplained and characters believe it's Revelations with the dead walking the Earth. The rest of the Zombie are fairly consistent in modern Zombie stories (Must damage the brain to kill, bites or scratches infect you, etc.). About the only other important rule that varies is wether you turn into a Zombie upon natural death, versus being infected, and typically a natural death will also give you Zombie-itis in modern Zombie movies
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Old July 2 2012, 05:57 PM   #40
Admiral James Kirk
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Re: In zombie films, how come nobody has ever...

Takeru wrote: View Post
Tiberius wrote: View Post
Not really accurate though. The ZSG refutes each one of the points.
I can refute the ZSG:

It's made up!

Using the ZSG to refute claims in other zombie fiction is ridiculous, it's like me using my Star Trek Technical Manual to explain that space travel in Stagate shouldn't work.
If this were Facebook I would:

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Old July 2 2012, 07:29 PM   #41
Scout101
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Re: In zombie films, how come nobody has ever...

Sindatur wrote: View Post
The reason for it saying "for some reason", is because that is one thing that does vary from movie/book to movie/book. Sometimes, it bio-warfare that infects them, sometimes it's moon rocks, sometimes, it's just unexplained and characters believe it's Revelations with the dead walking the Earth. The rest of the Zombie are fairly consistent in modern Zombie stories (Must damage the brain to kill, bites or scratches infect you, etc.). About the only other important rule that varies is wether you turn into a Zombie upon natural death, versus being infected, and typically a natural death will also give you Zombie-itis in modern Zombie movies
I get that, it's just that most of these stories try and keep to some sort of 'reality' rather than imagining their own details. Like zombies with toxic blood, for example. Where'd the zombies get that, where'd they get the new parts that can HANDLE toxic blood?

Silly to try and use that to refute more generic points, as it's obviously specific to one case, and doesn't fit with MOST examples of the generic zombie.

Sure, they're all slightly different, but if you want to discuss them in general, best to start from a basis in reality (ie the human body it starts from) and not try and start with a magical space zombie. His toxic blood defense is just as valid as refuting the point by saying that zombies can fly
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Old July 2 2012, 09:31 PM   #42
Sindatur
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Re: In zombie films, how come nobody has ever...

Scout101 wrote: View Post
Sindatur wrote: View Post
The reason for it saying "for some reason", is because that is one thing that does vary from movie/book to movie/book. Sometimes, it bio-warfare that infects them, sometimes it's moon rocks, sometimes, it's just unexplained and characters believe it's Revelations with the dead walking the Earth. The rest of the Zombie are fairly consistent in modern Zombie stories (Must damage the brain to kill, bites or scratches infect you, etc.). About the only other important rule that varies is wether you turn into a Zombie upon natural death, versus being infected, and typically a natural death will also give you Zombie-itis in modern Zombie movies
I get that, it's just that most of these stories try and keep to some sort of 'reality' rather than imagining their own details. Like zombies with toxic blood, for example. Where'd the zombies get that, where'd they get the new parts that can HANDLE toxic blood?

Silly to try and use that to refute more generic points, as it's obviously specific to one case, and doesn't fit with MOST examples of the generic zombie.

Sure, they're all slightly different, but if you want to discuss them in general, best to start from a basis in reality (ie the human body it starts from) and not try and start with a magical space zombie. His toxic blood defense is just as valid as refuting the point by saying that zombies can fly
Maybe I'm lost in this conversation somewhere, and I've never read WWZ or the ZSG, but, my understanding is that the ZSG is akin to the Guy in Scream who knows all the Horror movie Rules (The one who loses her virginity always gets killed, Big Titted blonde runs up the stairs when she should be running down the stairs, etc). So, the ZSG is speaking of the Zombie genre as a whole, I believe, not specifically to WWZ Zombies. Therefore, the blood is always toxic, but, it became that way through a different route depending upon which "Patient Zero" origin trope they use.

I've seen an awful lot of Zombie movies, and never once seen them fly (Other than when they go off a building and plummet to the ground)
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Old July 3 2012, 12:05 AM   #43
the G-man
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Re: In zombie films, how come nobody has ever...

I have to say that, while I'm no expert on zombie movies (basically, I've seen a handful of the Romero films, the Raimi movies, TWD and various 80s B movies), I've never seen one where zombies are "toxic." Yes, I've seen them bite people and infect them (not unlike rabies) but never seen one where their toxicity is such that insects and other organisms that eat dead rabid animals would be affected. Is there a movie like that?
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Old July 3 2012, 12:13 AM   #44
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Re: In zombie films, how come nobody has ever...

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Here's a better idea:

Flamethrower.
This is in my head every time I watch The Walking Dead.
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Old July 3 2012, 02:39 AM   #45
Tiberius
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Re: In zombie films, how come nobody has ever...

Scout101 wrote: View Post
It dismissed the first 3 (valid) points by saying that Zombies are toxic...for some reason. Essentially just saying they're magic. Where's that come from?

Did YOU read it?
Yes I did, and I recall quite clearly the part where it says that flesh infected with the Solanum virus is made toxic by that virus.

The link you're trying to debunk treats Zombies as infected humans, with the same essential weaknesses, and moreso in some cases on account of being reanimated dead flesh. Yes, very strong, and a wound that kills a human only slows a Zombie down, but still starts with a human.
Yes.

Whereas your link starts with making up new facts based on nothing, and then using them to debunk other things. Not a point in its favor.
Given that zombies aren't real, ANYTHING about zombies suffers from this!

As for your last points: why wouldn't predators have a field day? Zombies can't (usually) run, can't use weapons, aren't great tactical minds. Mostly just stumbling around. Why wouldn't large animals have unlimited free meals, once they realize the humans aren't shooting anymore, aren't ambushing or laying traps? Might not be 100% kill rate, but think the wolves/dogs/lions/etc have a field day there with free (rancid) meat.
Like I said, if the flesh of a zombie is infected with something, then eating that flesh is likely to kill whatever ate it.

Assuming no other zombie magic, and that zombies are just reanimated corpses that are strong and not reactive to pain/major damage, seems like the points in that link work a lot better than what you're quoting in ZSG...
Really? You think it's a good idea to wear heavy hot armor and use a method of killing zombies that is hard to do? Or do you find it easy to chop through a Human neck in one blow?
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