Why is Nemesis hated so much?

[BillJ]

ssosmcin wrote:

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I always liked Nemesis. I liked it on opening night and I still do. I think it's a fun flick.

Seriously? With all of the men who shave their heads, all over the world, you really still think it means "skinhead"? It's a popular stylistic choice. The character could have done it for any number of reasons.

As my hair line has continued to recede at warp speed, I've contemplated just shaving it all off.

[Jeyl]

Why is Nemesis hated so much?

Because it ignores my favorite character moments from when they were on TV. Picard's artificial heart and how he got it would have made for quite the persuasive argument against Shinzon always blabbering on about the two of them being the same. Except nobody remembered that moment or chose to leave it out because they thought what they already had was brilliant enough.

[MrJ]

KingDaniel wrote:

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The pic in Nemesis shows Picard in the cadet jumpsuit, giving up to FOUR YEARS for the guy to grow his hair back after having shaved it off.

Actually, the pic in Nemesis shows Picard in an Enlisted Uniform. Starfleet cadets of that era wore the standard officer jackets with red turtle necks. Enlisted Men and NCOs wore the jumpsuit that "Picard" was shown wearing in the picture in Nemesis. Yet one more thing the film makers of Nemesis fucked up.

Harvey wrote:

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I think the complaints stem, in part, from the fact that a leaked version of the script described young Picard as having hair like he did in "Tapestry." When this was changed in the movie, some people interpreted it as the powers that be assuming their audience would be too stupid to realize that a character who once had hair was now bald.

That is exactly what happened. I don't remember if it was Berman or Baird, or both, but someone thought that the audience would be too stupid to know that the guy in the picture Picard was looking at was him. Unless he looked exactly like Tom Hardy looked like in the rest of the movie. Which meant having a bald head. The powers that be thinking their audience is stupid was a common occurrence with all the TNG films.

It's really the least of the film's many problems, though, but something easy to nitpick.

Indeed.

[blockaderunner]

THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE. That's all that's needed to say as to why this film is a disappointment. I'll say it again.

THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE

There have been many who have tried to defend this POS while overlooking that
THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE

Oh it's a fun popcorn flick
THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE

It's a loving homage to TWOK
THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE

It's dark and mysterious
THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE

It's the final hurrah of the TNG
THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE

You should lighten up, blockaderunner.
THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE

The Next Generation franchise not only jumped the shark,
THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE

Everything during the latter days of the B&B regime can be summed up in one scene.
THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE

[Harvey]

Picard's car chase is more believable (in a physical sense) than Riker's fisticuffs in the magical Enterprise abyss. Of course, in the Star Trek universe, it's rather stupid. Abrams' movie got away with about as much of a car chase as you can get without defying logic.

[Sindatur]

blockaderunner wrote:

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THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE.

Say what? What is this even supposed to mean?

[Sci]

The biggest problem with NEM is that it is dramatically arbitrary. Why is Picard goofing off in a car in the desert without checking to make sure the local sentient species wouldn't be able t find them? He feels like it. Why did Soong build another android like Data and not tell anyone? 'Cos. Why is Shinzon so fixated on Earth that he wants to destroy it even though the homeworld of the people who actually abused him and oppressed him was Romulus? Because Humans.

When characters make choices whose motivations feel unreal or incompatible with what we know of their personalities, that's a major problem.

The other issues are all very minor compared to that.

[-Brett-]

Stephen! wrote:

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I'd have thought after 10 years, people would have mellowed a bit and not be as harsh towards it.

After ten years, I would have thought that Nemesis fans (all six of them) would just accept that most people who saw it disliked it and stop making threads like this one.

[MrJ]

Most problems with Nemesis (all the TNG movies for that matter) can be summed up with this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoWfT...ailpage#t=536s

[R. Star]

blockaderunner wrote:

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THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE. That's all that's needed to say as to why this film is a disappointment. I'll say it again.

THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE

There have been many who have tried to defend this POS while overlooking that
THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE

Oh it's a fun popcorn flick
THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE

It's a loving homage to TWOK
THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE

It's dark and mysterious
THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE

It's the final hurrah of the TNG
THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE

You should lighten up, blockaderunner.
THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE

The Next Generation franchise not only jumped the shark,
THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE

Everything during the latter days of the B&B regime can be summed up in one scene.
THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE

I nominate this for the most annoying post ever.

[R. Star]

ssosmcin wrote:

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I always liked Nemesis. I liked it on opening night and I still do. I think it's a fun flick.

Seriously? With all of the men who shave their heads, all over the world, you really still think it means "skinhead"? It's a popular stylistic choice. The character could have done it for any number of reasons.

Seriously? Remove the chip from your shoulder and take the comment at face value, just a jibe at the inconsistency of the movie as a whole. Odd you pick that one line out of my whole post to respond to.

[inflatabledalek]

Whilst the bald Picard thing is only a small detail, I do think it does sum up perfectly a lot of the overall flaws with the film. There's a clear assumption the audience is too stupid to get that Picard is looking at a picture of himself as a teen unless he's bald. Plus it contradicts the earlier lines about how Shinzon doesn't look exactly like him because of all the beatings...

The script is a big problem, but it might not have been a fatal one. I would argue that the scripts of First Contact and the '09 film are just as full of stupidity and silly nonsense moments. But they're directed and performed with verve and omph they get away with it, both films effectively grab the viewer by the scruff of the neck, stare them in the eyes and dare them to point out plot holes.

If Nemesis had been given a director who was at least interested in doing a Trek film even if he wasn't a fan it might have still pulled it off. But there's a tired, languid feeling to the whole thing. And unlike the TOS films there's no real taking into account of their aging (Kirk got into surprisingly few fist fights in the films and those he did would usually see him either outclassed- he only wins against Kurge because the planet is exploding around them- or played for laughs- Kirk Vs. Kirk. Compare that to fat Riker trying to look threatening to Ron Pearlman or Picard single handedly killing a bridge full of monsters).

I've seen the last six films at the cinema and- though some have gone down in my esteem in the years since (alas poor Generations, time has been a cruel mistress)- Nemesis is the only one I thought was bobbins as I was watching it at the time.

[Shazam!]

Harvey wrote:

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Abrams' movie got away with about as much of a car chase as you can get without defying logic.

A little kid stealing a car and then driving off a cliff and then flying out at the last second like fucking Superman and then grabbing hold of a ledge and then climbing back up is more believable than a grown man messing around in a dune buggy?

[LOKAI of CHERON]

blockaderunner wrote:

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THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE. That's all that's needed to say as to why this film is a disappointment. I'll say it again.

THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE

There have been many who have tried to defend this POS while overlooking that
THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE

Oh it's a fun popcorn flick
THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE

It's a loving homage to TWOK
THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE

It's dark and mysterious
THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE

It's the final hurrah of the TNG
THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE

You should lighten up, blockaderunner.
THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE

The Next Generation franchise not only jumped the shark,
THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE

Everything during the latter days of the B&B regime can be summed up in one scene.
THERE'S A 70 YEAR OLD MAN DOING A DUKES OF HAZZARD JUMP INTO A SHUTTLE

Patrick Stewart was 61 when he shot this movie.

[inflatabledalek]

But Picard is supposed to be in his 70's at this point isn't he? Even if Stewart is younger.