DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

[Turtletrekker]

In Batman Beyond Unlimited 5, we finally get what I presume is the tweek on Terry's origin that was promised, but I think that...

... making the guy who pulled the trigger on Terry's dad on Derek Powers behalf a decendant of Joe Chill reeks of "small universe syndrome". At least this Chill seems to wants to make good on his past.

[Hartzilla2007]

shivkala wrote:

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in the case of "RIP" and "Knightfall" both of those end with a new Batman

Actually according to the end of the for Batman and Robin arc RIP started with a new Batman then jumped back to the original.

[shivkala]

True, "Batman and Robin will never die!"

[Hound of UIster]

Admiral_Young wrote:

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I've been saying that from the start. I don't get what the point of all this tinkering with Gotham and Bruce's past. I do like the fact that Snyder has been delving more into the city's history, but for me it needs to actually lead somewhere, the reveal from issue ten is a good start, but that can't be the only thing we get out of this.

It sets up a direct opposite foe to Batman INC and a direct foil to Bruce. Instead of a group of vigilantes of Bat themed vigilantes out to change the world, you have a group of owl themed individuals that seeks to preserve an outdated status quo where it's a rule by the elite.

It's pretty different from RIP where it's less of a creation of an ongoing nemesis and more an exercise of peeling away of what makes the Batman what he is when he has no gadgets, no sidekicks and no sanity.

If there is any ongoing theme in Court of Owls, it's not the question of what defines Batman, but what defines Gotham? The Court or Bruce.

[Admiral_Young]

Except that Batman, Inc and "Batman" appear to be completely separate entities. We have Leviathan's forces going against Bruce and Damian in that book, and the Court of Owls against them in "Batman". I very much doubt that Morrison would incorporate the Court into the finale of Inc. I get the thematic conflict between the Court and Bruce, it was apparent in the first issue of the book and going all the way back to Gates of Gotham. The ongoing conflict is control over Gotham City.

[PsychoPere]

Although I've enjoyed this Court of Owls / Night of the Owls story arc, I'm actually even more interested in seeing how Dick plans to make his own mark in Gotham moving forward, stepping out of the Batman and Bruce Wayne shadows to have his own impact.

[Admiral_Young]

This is interesting....it appears even George Perez had no idea about what exactly he was supposed to be doing regarding "Superman" and backs up the reputation Grant Morrision has that he does what he wants and doesn't really tell anyone.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/06/...-at-dc-comics/

[Derishton]

I don't see how this is Morrison's fault, really. The whole story sounds to me like proof that the new 52 was decided very quickly and was never really entirely organized. At all.

[the G-man]

Derishton wrote:

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I don't see how this is Morrison's fault, really. The whole story sounds to me like proof that the new 52 was decided very quickly and was never really entirely organized. At all.

How was it supposed to get "organized" if-as Perez claims-Morrison wouldn't work with him or tell him (or anyone else) what he (Morrison) planned to do?

• I couldn’t do certain things without knowing what he did, and Grant wasn’t telling everybody, so I was kind of stuck,who exists, DC couldn’t give me answers.

[Admiral_Young]

This is one of the problems that I've had since the relaunch was announced. The claim that this was planned since (October) again that comment from DiDio or was it Lee now? I've forgotten. Either way the things we've heard from the actual writing talent since then makes me think there was no real planning or thought or organization put into the relaunch. They probably had a meeting, talked about specific points they wanted to inject into the relaunch and then decided to do it before reaching out to the creators they wanted to work on whatever books.

I wasn't blaming Morrison...my criticism continues to focus solely on the masterminds behind this relaunch, which seem to be Johns, Lee, and DiDio.

[Derishton]

the G-man wrote:

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How was it supposed to get "organized" if-as Perez claims-Morrison wouldn't work with him or tell him (or anyone else) what he (Morrison) planned to do?

• I couldn’t do certain things without knowing what he did, and Grant wasn’t telling everybody, so I was kind of stuck,who exists, DC couldn’t give me answers.

It's DC's job to run things if it has a direction in mind. Morrison on Action was a bigger part of whatever plan they had than whoever they put on Superman.

Morrison has been screwed by DC in the recent past, and this situation just feels like more of the same: DC wants to pretend this was long-planned, and as successful as I think it's been, it is clear that it was not planned.

[the G-man]

I think there's plenty of blame to go around: Morrison for not being cooperative with his fellow writers and editorial for lack of planning and a failure to ride herd on Morrison and other "star" writers.

In fact, this has been a complaint I've had with DC (and Marvel) for at least 10-15 years now. Editors are supposed to edit. They're supposed to give constructive criticism and serve as a second set of eyes to make improve the writer's work. However, these days, editors seem to either micromanage the writers or not manage them at all.

[Derishton]

That sounds exactly right to me: the Big Two either need to have a direction that they police, or they loosen the ties and let individual creators do their thing even if it means looser continuity.

I suspect I'm a bigger Morrison fan than you are (maybe?), but he's exactly the sort that needs his own corner to play in. He really should have just been given Earth-33 or Earth-18 or something: the Earth where Batman Inc and Final Crisis and Action could take place, continuity-free.

[the G-man]

I like some Morrison, don't care for other work. Love most of his Superman stuff. Absolutely hate most of his Batman stuff. However, I agree with you that he's at his best when he has his own "universe" to play in.

[Mr Light]

I'm enjoying Action, but "Superman" has been absolutely uninteresting so far. They should have just let Morrison write both books, one in the past, one in the present. At least then there would be consistency (and continuity!).