PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

[sonak]

TremblingBluStar wrote:

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I'm with you there. I watched the show religiously through the first and second seasons. When they got to the third season, the other island, and the reveal that The Others aren't a mysterious group beyond our comprehension, but hippies living on the other side of the island in a condo village out in the middle of nowhere... that made me realize the writers really had no plan or even a clue where the show was going.

Ultimately that proved to be right. I guess that is where Prometheus fans and Lost fans have something in common. Fans of Lost are able to forgive the show's meandering plot and lack of focus because they love the characters, the setting, or the atmosphere enough to find enjoyment despite the show's flaws.

I'm able to find enjoyment in Prometheus despite the movie's flaws because I loved the atmosphere, the setting, and a few of the characters. I have no personal gripe against Lindolf, even though the interview posted earlier does make him sound like a rather whiney douche. However, I am a huge fan of Ridley Scott, and I applaud his effort to flesh out some of the unanswered questions from the first Alien film.

Some friends tried to get me into "Lost," but I didn't care for it. From what I'm reading here, it seems that I saved myself some time and effort.

[Kegg]

Finally got around to seeing this and really liked it by and large. Space movies like this aren't that common in the cinemas these days (last comparable film I went to was Avatar), and the original Alien is one of my favourite films. I watch it every Halloween.

It's true that Prometheus is always conscious of the fact that the movie is banking on its relationship to Alien - it has many of the same visual cues, a plot that moves in a similar direction, scare moments that toy with or build on some of the most inspired sequences in the original film - but, again, I love the heck out of that movie so this kind of fidelity did not get on my bad side.

And the way the film built on the HR Giger designed alien spaceship with those new rooms and controls was sweet. Some strong performances too - Fassbender's every bit as good as Holm as the morally ambivalent android.

Locutus of Bored wrote:

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I wasn't a fan of Prometheus, but that doesn't make people stupid for enjoying it or being okay with the lack of explanation for many of the events in the film. What I personally see as poor scriptwriting and direction, others might see as a deliberate choice to leave things vague and mysterious for the sequel(s). The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

Since I've read they hoped to make sequels to Prometheus, I'd assume that the vagueness was deliberate.

Whether such vagueness being deliberate constitutes poor scriptwriting regardless is of course another question.

It's pretty obvious why the Engineers want to kill humanity- this is a horror movie. You don't sideline your third act into a scene of serene contact with an alien lifeform that could have come out of let's say, Contact.

The Engineers are aliens, so they're either dead aliens for whom their manner of death is scary and hints at what's in store for the human characters (basically the function they served in the original Alien, and for most of this film - the guy who poisoned himself for whatever reason, the dead alien crew, etc.) or they themselves are a menace. Since one of them survived, he had to serve that function to keep the film within its genre.

The problem obviously is as perfect sense this makes as a genre device, we have no idea why an alien race would create a smaller version of themselves on a far off world, and then leave them there for a few billion years patiently waiting for them to connect a series of clues after developing space travel that would allow them to find their way to their military lab where they can then kill them.

And this is ignoring the fact that it looks like before the lab personnel were all killed off, the Engineers were planning to nuke Earth anyway, and I'm not even bothering trying to figure out where the guy who killed himself fit in. Gah.

But hey. If they're making a sequel, I'm definitely onboard.

The home planet of the engineers. Some kind of massive surreal Giger-ish smoggy disgusting bizarre megalopolis, probably with I don't know, the entire planet dead and having our survivors wander around listlessly in the giant bio-buildings... or whatever. Dead civilizations, always fun in sci-fi.

Well, and, obviously, getting some answers to the questions in Prometheus would be nice.

Suggested title for sequel: Epimetheus. You're welcome, Ridley Scott.

[Mr Light]

I just got back from seeing it a second time. It was very interesting to watch it again, knowing all the theories and the complaints going in.

I still enjoyed it a second time around. And I'm still not bothered by all the nitpicks.

This was not a professional scientific expedition. It was a corporate mission and they didn't care at all about scientific method. The two lead scientists were crackpot alien astronaut theorists that nobody respected. The geologist was a pothead (I forgot that part, lol). The other two scientists signed onto a two year expedition without knowing what the hell it was about; clearly they were the dregs of their respective fields.

I like the Sumerian thing that was posited earlier. There were two alien groups, the gods and the angels. The Engineers are the angels. The gods were the shriveled old aliens seen in the opening deleted scene. The angels rebelled against the gods, using the black goo bioweapon to kill them, but of course it got out of control and wiped them out as well. Since the angels were forced to sacrifice themselves to create life on other worlds, they now wish to exterminate those planets and remake them into their own worlds to inhabit.

[Professor Zoom]

Mr Light wrote:

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This was not a professional scientific expedition. It was a corporate mission and they didn't care at all about scientific method. The two lead scientists were crackpot alien astronaut theorists that nobody respected. The geologist was a pothead (I forgot that part, lol). The other two scientists signed onto a two year expedition without knowing what the hell it was about; clearly they were the dregs of their respective fields.

So... he's willing to spend a trillion dollars and hires the "dregs" of the scientific community? Because a real scientist couldn't be found? This isn't a nitpick, it's believably.

[Warped9]

Mr Light wrote:

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This was not a professional scientific expedition. It was a corporate mission and they didn't care at all about scientific method. The two lead scientists were crackpot alien astronaut theorists that nobody respected. The geologist was a pothead (I forgot that part, lol). The other two scientists signed onto a two year expedition without knowing what the hell it was about; clearly they were the dregs of their respective fields.

This was the impression I got pretty much as things started to unreel. That said while we can interpret this part of the film as such (and not unfairly) I can understand the complaints that a few lines of dialogue could have clarified this idea.

Mr Light wrote:

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Since the angels were forced to sacrifice themselves to create life on other worlds, they now wish to exterminate those planets and remake them into their own worlds to inhabit.

Or they wanted to eradicate all traces of what they had unlashed lest it continue to turn on them. If humanity is indeed a descendant or progeny of the Engineers and the black goo then they might just assume we need to be wiped out. And/or there's some other as yet unspecified reason they felt we didn't deserve to continue as a species---this a question which could be clarified in a sequel.

On this point, though, one can legitimately quibble. Our DNA is 99% similar to chimpanzees and yet we are quite different. The film could have said more accurately that our DNA and that of the Engineers are a very close match and not identical a match. Mind you a lot of folks in the audience might not catch that, but it is a slip in the writing.

[Mr Light]

I would imagine that the black goo that makes the xenomorphs is a weaponized version of the kind used to create peaceful human life in prehistory. I find it hard to believe the exact same stuff creates mankind and also xenomorphs. Of course, Holloway's face did look similar to the dying Engineer's face in the prologue...

Weyland only cared about finding the aliens and gaining immortality. They probably just took the other two guys in case they needed them. But who is going to sign up for a four year round trip knowing nothing about it?

[Nightowl1701]

Professor Zoom wrote:

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So... he's willing to spend a trillion dollars and hires the "dregs" of the scientific community? Because a real scientist couldn't be found? This isn't a nitpick, it's believably.

No, because - if Weyland succeeds and comes back to Earth immortal, bearing solid evidence of both first contact with aliens AND the secret origin of mankind - HE wants all the credit. Having more competant/prominent scientists on board would stand in the way of that.

That's why, among other things, Vickers ordered Shaw/Holloway to report straight back to her if they found any living aliens. "You WON'T engage them, you WON'T talk to them." It wasn't enough for this egomaniac even that he gain renewed life; he also wanted the fame and glory of being the first to personally speak with extraterrestrials. "I WILL achieve greatness - or die trying." The "dregs" would just have to settle for being to the Prometheus mission what Michael Collins was to Apollo 11.

[Professor Zoom]

Nightowl1701 wrote:

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No, because - if Weyland succeeds and comes back to Earth immortal, bearing solid evidence of both first contact with aliens AND the secret origin of mankind - HE wants all the credit. Having more competant/prominent scientists on board would stand in the way of that.

Having more competent people would stand in the way? REALLY? Cause how did it work out for him having the dregs of the scientific community? THEY RAN AWAY AT THE FIRST SIGHT OF WHAT HE WAS LOOKING FOR.

I'm sorry... that is the silliest justification.... You don't think in the world of Alien there's a (capable) scientist who would be willing to work for a TON of money, who would sign a contract?

You don't think the movie just might be a WEE bit better if there weren't idiots in the movie?

That's why, among other things, Vickers ordered Shaw/Holloway to report straight back to her if they found any living aliens. "You WON'T engage them, you WON'T talk to them." It wasn't enough for this egomaniac even that he gain renewed life; he also wanted the fame and glory of being the first to personally speak with extraterrestrials. "I WILL achieve greatness - or die trying." The "dregs" would just have to settle for being to the Prometheus mission what Michael Collins was to Apollo 11.

If it was that important to Weyland that HE be the one to discover, why didn't he just go with a shipload of Davids? David was MUCH more capable of... well, EVERYONE... Weyland HAD the destination... Why did he need a human crew? IF it was so important that HE be the one to discover the Aliens... and not just getting a longer life.

AND, ...Michael Collins was a fucking hero. And NOT an idiot.

[Nightowl1701]

Professor Zoom wrote:

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You don't think in the world of Alien there's a (capable) scientist who would be willing to work for a TON of money, who would sign a contract?

Obviously there WAS - Elizabeth Shaw. (Or at least Weyland thought so.) SHE wouldn't run away, and her quest for answers would override any desire for fame and glory. Holloway, as events proved, was simply along for the ride as her boyfriend (to keep Shaw happy). He was in the same category as Millburn & Fifield = Canary in the Coal Mine/Cannon Fodder.

Professor Zoom wrote:

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If it was that important to Weyland that HE be the one to discover, why didn't he just go with a shipload of Davids? David was MUCH more capable of... well, EVERYONE... Weyland HAD the destination... Why did he need a human crew? IF it was so important that HE be the one to discover the Aliens... and not just getting a longer life.

Good question. Obviously Weyland wouldn't have the prejudice against robots Holloway and others displayed. Vickers, on the other hand...

Professor Zoom wrote:

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AND, ...Michael Collins was a fucking hero. And NOT an idiot.

AMEN to that. But ask anybody these days under 30 who was on that mission, and you get "Neil Armstrong, Buzz Aldrin, and...uh, the other one..."
(I really wish there was a thumbsup that didn't have the wink.)

[Violet.Phoenix]

Saw this earlier today, and I was not disappointed.

The opening of the movie is gorgeous, the visuals, the score, the cinematograpy; it all took my breath away. This was not the only scene with stunning visuals as well. The scenes including holographic imagery were superbly done, as well as the scenes with the alien ship.

The plot is believeable, and I love that their attempt to answer a question about 'life' only leads to more and not really an answer. I think that there's something really fitting about this; in science there must always be a question. Without that, where is the purpose of inquiry?

I do agree that there was a certain degree of vagueness surrounding events in the film (whatever happened to the biologist? We only see Fifield after the attack), but I get the feeling that that is meant to lead into a sequel, and with that I can live with some of it. There are still questions, but they don't bug me like other questions in other films have.

There were some great twists as well in this; I still love the ending for that little moment after Shaw has left (and her final log entry was really moving from a scientific perspective).

And lastly, one line that I do not think I will ever forget: "A king has his reign, and then he dies." - there's something absolutely bone-chilling about that.

This is a great sci-fi tale that leaves some things open to speculation, others to imagination. There are some answers that I do want, but I am content to wait for sequels. To me this is great science fiction: asking questions and never stop asking them. I thoroughly enjoyed this.

[Mr Light]

I was operating under the assumption that David was the first of his kind, the prototype, and no others had been made yet.

[ManOnTheWave]

Mr Light wrote:

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I was operating under the assumption that David was the first of his kind, the prototype, and no others had been made yet.

In the viral advert Happy Birthday David, we see two Davids playing a game. If we take the advert at face value, then he's not one of a kind. However, I suppose it is possible and even
likely that the first or one of the first Davids made would be claimed by Weyland if he took a great deal of interest in the android's development.

[Samurai8472]

[QUOTE=sonak;6535894][QUOTE=TremblingBluStar;6535621]

Mach5 wrote:

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Some friends tried to get me into "Lost," but I didn't care for it. From what I'm reading here, it seems that I saved myself some time and effort.

I watched season five and season 6. I got sucked in to the end

I did get annoyed at how prentious some of the creators and fans were


What is the smoke monster
Who are the others
What is jacob
What is the hatch?
What do the numbers mean?


Seriously just shut up!

[Mach5]

Samurai8472 wrote:

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Seriously just shut up!

[Locutus of Bored]

Mr Light wrote:

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I was operating under the assumption that David was the first of his kind, the prototype, and no others had been made yet.

In the promotional videos David is the eighth generation of his kind going back to at least the early 2020s, and as mentioned above there were others that looked like him. His was the most highly advanced in terms of understanding and mimicking human emotion, while not being able to feel emotions himself; or so he says, though the film seems to imply otherwise. Either that or his mimicry of contempt and wonder is so precise as to be indistinguishable from human emotion, in which case the difference between them being real emotions or not is largely a moot point.