Revisiting the films...

[T'Girl]

Warped9 wrote:

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Star Trek: First Contact (1996) **

The Enterprise is way out on the Romulan border and yet they can make it back to Earth in practically no time to engage the Borg. Hookay…

That was never my impression. At the very beginning of the movie we don't know exactly where the Enterprise is, other that they are "three hours twenty-five minutes" from the Typhon sector, wherever that is. The Typhon sector is where Admiral Hayes is mobilizing a fleet.

The Enterprise then travels to the RNZ and has time to complete a sensor sweep of the RNZ. At this point the Fleet (presumable in the Typhon sector) engages the Borg.

The Enterprise at that point sets course for Earth at maximum warp, the Borg cube is still engaged with the fleet. The cube and the fleet arrive at Earth only shortly before the Enterprise does. The Enterprise might have spent multiple days at maximum warp to reach Earth, in order to intercept the Borg cube.

From the RNZ, the Enterprise might have been incapable of joining the fleet at any other point other than Earth.

[Warped9]

The Enterprise is at the Romulan Neutral Zone and then heads for Earth where the Borg cube is practically on top of the planet. That's what is in the film and it's just as dumb as the Enterprise making it to the heart of the galaxy in no time at all in TFF.

The series often enough made nods to time required to get from place to place, but the films usually glossed that over without one line of dialogue to address it.

[mos6507]

Jeyl wrote:

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One of my issues with TMP stems more from the fact that the film is so overtly Spock/Kirk oriented that a lot of what they do in the film could easily have been done by the other crew members.

For example, the scene where the Enterprise comes under attack by V'Ger. I would start it out just as it did in the film with Spock telepathically feeling V'Ger's puzzlement over not getting a reply from it's attempt to communicate with the Enterprise. However, where things play differently is that after the Enterprise survives the first attack, it's UHURA who figures out that Spock was correct and that V'Ger was communicating in a means they didn't pick up immediately. I would than have her be the one who programs her communications computer and transmits the message just in the nick of time.

See what I'm saying? The one area of the film where communications plays a key role in over coming an obstacle in the story, and they don't give it to the one character who's sole job is communications. Watching the Special Longer Edition of the scene where the Enterprise first comes under attack is almost embarrassing since all she does is try in vein to contact Starfleet command. Why? What are they going to say? Good luck?

Absolutely agree. They short-changed Uhura and let Spock take over her role too much. It made sense thematically because Spock is supposed to be in a similar psychological stage as V'Ger, but it disrupted the ensemble atmosphere. I know there's debate as to whether Trek was ever supposed to be ensemble, but by that point that's what people expected to see.

Spock also undercuts her somewhat in decoding the whalesong in Trek IV.

[heavy lids]

Warped9 wrote:

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The Enterprise is at the Romulan Neutral Zone and then heads for Earth where the Borg cube is practically on top of the planet. That's what is in the film and it's just as dumb as the Enterprise making it to the heart of the galaxy in no time at all in TFF.

They're movies. For one, we have no idea how long it would have actually taken the Enterprise to reach Earth. Film, television and theater always have unexplained gaps from one scene to the next. We also don't know exactly how long the battle was.

Actually, I think the Okuda's could tell us how long it would take to travel from the RNZ to Earth at maximum warp.

[RAMA]

RAMA wrote:

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My capsule thoughts on the movies:

1. Star Trek 09-Credit due for a new producer who made ST feel like ST again. Adventure, scale, cachet, all missing from previous Trek movies. If all that's not enough, it's writing brought some small development to characters that basically didn't change much in the original series, executed well enough to be nominated for a Hugo, Nebula, Writers Guild Award, a trifecta not accomplished by any other Trek movie.

A home run, a bullseye, direct hit!! A smashing blockbuster success! The most cinematic, the most dense, most energetic, fully realized, rich, fun, rousing, professionally made MOVIE of all of ST. Rewatchable with almost every sequence creating a lasting impression. The best "teaser", best beginning credit sequences, the best Special FX, the best sound, best ending credits! Grade: ***** of 5 stars

2. Wrath of Khan-The best movie for 27 years until 2009! Good characterization, and a movie that makes up for an underwritten villain role with terrific performances by everyone concerned. Themes about aging, family, new life-hope, with a good dose of action. Still contains SF movie's best battle scene. *****

3. First Contact-Admittedly, not a perfect film, and not the best Borg story by a long shot but it also offered a multi-leveled formula for success: ST history, time-travel, almost elemental enemies, and something rarely seen..a personal vendetta for Picard. ****

4. Voyage Home-Not completely logical but a fun movie with no significant strikes against it. Expanded the ST universe a bit, with a look at Starfleet and the UFP. Did I mention fun? ****

5. Nemesis-Again, not a perfect movie, one I'd have re-written myself somewhat, but it's a major improvement in scale and pace over the previous STNG movie as well as the latter TOS ones. ***1/2

6. STMMP-DE-Ok here is where I change my mind occasionally..sometimes STIII feels more statisfying as a movie, but the new DE is an improvement over the original...its a tighter movie. Hard to beat for FX and music (both nominated for Oscars)the story feels slim, but the philosophy behind it wins the day. ***1/2

7. STIII-So STTMP improves upon TOS with a story that takes AI seriously, and tried to include Spock in that as a personal link...STIII again uses Spock but in a story whose philosophy is bizarre and very un-Treklike...postulating souls that come back to life...must have had theists as well as non-theists perplexed in it's day (I was 14 and just knew I liked Spock being alive). There are good moments and ILM does a great job on a small budget (one that used fewer FX than many made-for-tv movies, as well as STNG 3 yrs later). Ultimately it can't compete with some of the better Trek movies. ***

8. Undiscovered Country-Marginally better than #9 on my list. Not a movie that withstands the test of time well both in production and format. ***

9. Insurrection-Underrated, certainly not a terrible movie. Lacks scale and a sense of urgency. Gains points for a plot that's still debated amongst fans today. ***

10. Generations-A complete mess of a script. The most inconsistent internal logic of all stories. It's few pluses can't make up for a scattershot mis-fire of a movie. **

11. Final frontier-The movie that shall not be named! Though I am naming it embarrassingly bad. Problems begin at the start of a poor concept, terrible dialogue, dumb humor, horrible FX, old actors looking tired. This is what happens when the studio doesn't throw out a clearly terrible script...possibly because of the success of STIV and STNG. 1/2

RAMA

Hmm yes, still good. No changes. Excellent.

[Chrisisall]

Warped9 wrote:

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The series often enough made nods to time required to get from place to place, but the films usually glossed that over without one line of dialogue to address it.

Yeah, that bugged me too.

#1 STTMP- yeah, it was slow, but it felt most like the series to me. Plus: a great SF movie Trek or not.
#2 Undiscovered Country- all I love in Trek is here.Great send off.
#3 Voyage Home- No Enterprise here sadly, but the character & dialogue is spot-on!
#4 Wrath Of Khan- plot holes aside, a rousing action tale with a great score & high emotion.
#5 Search For Spock- Not a great movie, but full of great moments and even better FX.
#6 First Contact- Feels epic, lots of fun.
#7 Insurrection- a perfect extended NG episode.
#8 Final Frontier- Clean up the FX, and add Rock-men to finale (and take out a few stupid gags) and this movie would be way higher up!
#9 ST '09- not much sense here, but lots of eye candy & action. Plus Nimoy.
#10 Nemesis- kind of a waste of time, nice first few minutes though.
#11 I think it's called 'Generational' or something... whatever, it's so bad I can't deal.

[RAMA]

Chrisisall wrote:

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Yeah, that bugged me too.

#1 STTMP- yeah, it was slow, but it felt most like the series to me. Plus: a great SF movie Trek or not.
#2 Undiscovered Country- all I love in Trek is here.Great send off.
#3 Voyage Home- No Enterprise here sadly, but the character & dialogue is spot-on!
#4 Wrath Of Khan- plot holes aside, a rousing action tale with a great score & high emotion.
#5 Search For Spock- Not a great movie, but full of great moments and even better FX.
#6 First Contact- Feels epic, lots of fun.
#7 Insurrection- a perfect extended NG episode.
#8 Final Frontier- Clean up the FX, and add Rock-men to finale (and take out a few stupid gags) and this movie would be way higher up!
#9 ST '09- not much sense here, but lots of eye candy & action. Plus Nimoy.
#10 Nemesis- kind of a waste of time, nice first few minutes though.
#11 I think it's called 'Generational' or something... whatever, it's so bad I can't deal.

Warp drive was always a conceit to enable the starship to explore a new planet every week...it doesn't bother me THAT much. Going to the center of the galaxy bothers me slightly more because its much further away than the borders of the UFP to Sector 001, but it wouldn't ruin the film for me alone.

[Lenny Nurdbol]

MacLeod wrote:

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From memory, there was a line at the start of TUC said somthing like.

"Sub-space shockwave orignated at ...." Subspace is TFL. Might be contrived somewhat unbelivable. But at least they tried to address why a ship light years away would feel it.

It was cheap and unrealistic, regardless of it being a "subspace wave" supposedly travelling at multilight speeds...

What really gets me though is this idea that Praxis is a Moon of Kronos... Let's see, we are given the impression that the Excelsior is cruising Through the Kronos system? This based upon Praxis orbiting Kronos and Kronos is the Homeworld of the Klingons? For this to hold water, the Excelsior would have to be Deep within the Klingon Empire at its heart... At least the novelization says that Praxis is orbiting some other planet or star and doesn't emphasize Kronos... But you can ask any fan today, and indeed read any novel like that "Shadows" one from the other year, and you'll be told that Praxis was orbiting Kronos...

I remember some years ago getting into a pissing contest over this online... Fans were telling me "Why Can't Kronos be on the remote Edge of Klingon space bordering the UFP!" and they were comparing it to known borders on Earth, for Gene's sake!

[Chrisisall]

Lenny Nurdbol wrote:

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I remember some years ago getting into a pissing contest over this online... Fans were telling me "Why Can't Kronos be on the remote Edge of Klingon space bordering the UFP!" and they were comparing it to known borders on Earth, for Gene's sake!

I love that they had a 60's mentality in that set up! How quaint.

[JamesRye]

I'm reviewing all the Star Trek movies on my blog, I've just finished Star Trek: First Contact, which was way better than I remembered it. Personally I really enjoyed ST09, though like all the Trek films since The Wrath of Khan it contains many irritating plot holes and discrepancies.

http://ryesofthegeek.wordpress.com/

[Chrisisall]

JamesRye wrote:

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I'm reviewing all the Star Trek movies on my blog

http://ryesofthegeek.wordpress.com/

I LOVED your review of Trek VI! It's really the best one I ever read, so detailed...

[CorporalCaptain]

Lenny Nurdbol wrote:

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What really gets me though is this idea that Praxis is a Moon of Kronos

There is nothing canonical establishing Praxis as a moon of Kronos/Qo'noS.

On-screen in TUC, Praxis is referred to as a "Klingon moon", which could simply mean recognized as belonging to the Klingon Empire, but not necessarily of the homeworld [transcript]. According to Memory Alpha, Star Trek: Star Charts definitively puts Praxis outside the Qo'noS star system.

[Greg Cox]

Warped9 wrote:

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The series often enough made nods to time required to get from place to place, but the films usually glossed that over without one line of dialogue to address it.

That's because films don't have commercial breaks!

[Flake]

The Enterprise travels at whatever speed serves the plot it always has and it always will. Ultimately the writers are not going to be enslaved by the mechanics of warp speed if it messes up the pacing of their movie or ruins their script. Best thing to do is just accept it and not get annoyed! Its a tv show/movie designed to entertain us after all.

[Greg Cox]

Part of the problem, of course, is trying to maintain a sense of urgency in the face of vast cosmic distances. Imagine if Star Trek movies went like this:

"Captain! We've received an emergency distress signal from Gamma Sigma III!"

"Warp factor eight, Mr. Sulu!"

"Aye-aye, sir!"

(32.86 hours later).

"Are we there yet?"

(93.2 hours later.)

"Are we there yet?"

(103.05 hours later.)

"Okay, I going to go take a nap. Wake we when we get there."