RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,670
Posts: 5,429,476
Members: 24,822
Currently online: 443
Newest member: The Great Duck


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 19 2012, 01:33 PM   #31
zarkon
Captain
 
zarkon's Avatar
 
Re: Errand of Vengeance / Fury series

Christopher wrote: View Post
I wouldn't consider most of the books on that list to be "dark," especially not The Wounded Sky, which is one of the most idealized portrayals of the ST cast and universe you're ever likely to see.
All the ones in the list I consider sophisticated, not dark.
__________________
In defeat, malice. In victory, revenge.
zarkon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 19 2012, 01:56 PM   #32
RonG
Captain
 
RonG's Avatar
 
Location: Fluidic Space
View RonG's Twitter Profile Send a message via Yahoo to RonG
Re: Errand of Vengeance / Fury series

Thanks, zarkon.

I already read (and love) all the books you mentioned

To be a bit more specific, I'm looking for novels that offer a "less-idealized" view on the Federation, Starfleet, etc.

Again, it's a bit hard to explain, so it doesn't surprise me that the novels you recommended (while fantastic in their own right) are not what I'm currently looking for.
still, the effort is much appreciated
__________________
RonG is Right!
RonG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 19 2012, 03:38 PM   #33
bok2384
Commander
 
bok2384's Avatar
 
Location: Warwickshire, UK
View bok2384's Twitter Profile Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to bok2384
Re: Errand of Vengeance / Fury series

I'll take a stab at it, although probably get it completely wrong. What we must remember though, is that the reason that Vanguard was so different to what went before was the fact that it did take us into dark and uncomfortable places, in contrast to what the crew of the Enterprise traditionally turned up.

Web of the Romulans by M.S. Murdock could be a good choice. It's been a while since I've read it, but contains a fair bit of Romulan political intrigue as well as dealing with Starfleet preparing for a war with the Romulans. Again, might not be what you're after.

You're probably familiar with the Rihannsu series of novels. I've only read the first two so far, but we have treachery, deceit, secret missions, delving into the Romulans yet again.

I've not read it yet, but the description to Dwellers in the Crucible could be quite a dark novel and offer a dark and twisted view of how the Federation keeps the peace. Have to check it out myself.

Dreadnought! by Diane Carey sees a renegade Starfleet admiral and Kirk and crews attempt to stop him and his prototype dreadnought.

The Pandora Principle by Carolyn Clewes. Good one this, bit of espionage against the Romulans after the Enterprise discovers a Bird-of-Prey adrift. Also examines Saavik's harsh beginnings on Hellguard. Dark stuff.

I think that's it, by-and-large, apart from what you've already read. Coule be bad suggestions, but I'd read them all anyway because they're good.
__________________
Currently reading: Typhon Pact: Paths of Disharmony by Dayton Ward
Next up: The Fall: A Ceremony of Losses by David Mack
bok2384 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 19 2012, 04:49 PM   #34
RonG
Captain
 
RonG's Avatar
 
Location: Fluidic Space
View RonG's Twitter Profile Send a message via Yahoo to RonG
Re: Errand of Vengeance / Fury series

bok2384 wrote: View Post
I'll take a stab at it, although probably get it completely wrong. What we must remember though, is that the reason that Vanguard was so different to what went before was the fact that it did take us into dark and uncomfortable places, in contrast to what the crew of the Enterprise traditionally turned up.

Web of the Romulans by M.S. Murdock could be a good choice. It's been a while since I've read it, but contains a fair bit of Romulan political intrigue as well as dealing with Starfleet preparing for a war with the Romulans. Again, might not be what you're after.

You're probably familiar with the Rihannsu series of novels. I've only read the first two so far, but we have treachery, deceit, secret missions, delving into the Romulans yet again.

I've not read it yet, but the description to Dwellers in the Crucible could be quite a dark novel and offer a dark and twisted view of how the Federation keeps the peace. Have to check it out myself.

Dreadnought! by Diane Carey sees a renegade Starfleet admiral and Kirk and crews attempt to stop him and his prototype dreadnought.

The Pandora Principle by Carolyn Clewes. Good one this, bit of espionage against the Romulans after the Enterprise discovers a Bird-of-Prey adrift. Also examines Saavik's harsh beginnings on Hellguard. Dark stuff.

I think that's it, by-and-large, apart from what you've already read. Coule be bad suggestions, but I'd read them all anyway because they're good.
thanks for the suggestions, bok2384

I've actually bought and read them all except for Web of the Romulans. I'll try and hunt down a copy.


Thanks!
__________________
RonG is Right!
RonG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 19 2012, 04:59 PM   #35
Patrick O'Brien
Captain
 
Patrick O'Brien's Avatar
 
Location: Brooklyn NY
Re: Errand of Vengeance / Fury series

I belive Cast No Shadow by James Swallow my fit your criteria Ron. That is if you have not read it?
__________________
The bureaucratic mentality is the only constant in the universe.
-Dr. McCoy, Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home
Patrick O'Brien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 19 2012, 05:39 PM   #36
zarkon
Captain
 
zarkon's Avatar
 
Re: Errand of Vengeance / Fury series

Bear in mind it's a post STVI book though, so just starting to slip out of the TOS era, though still there or there abouts.

Totally forgot about that one. Decentish book, although I think Valeris wasn't particularly well handled.
__________________
In defeat, malice. In victory, revenge.

Last edited by zarkon; June 19 2012 at 05:50 PM.
zarkon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 19 2012, 05:51 PM   #37
Dukhat
Commodore
 
Dukhat's Avatar
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
Re: Errand of Vengeance / Fury series

My memory about the first trilogy is a bit dodgy, having read it several years ago. But the one thing I do recall was that there were typos on almost every page of all three books. And really glaring typos as well. I remember thinking that I couldn't believe Pocket Books would have published these books with the amount of mistakes in them. Mind you, this is not the author's fault, but PB's editor.

Another thing I found really annoying is the use of the names of real Star Trek production personnel as characters. Okuda, Sternbach, Drexler et. al are name-dropped to the point of ridiculousness. I really wish Trek authors wouldn't do that, because in fiction one wants to imagine what those characters look like in our minds. Giving a character the name "Roddenberry" just to be cute automatically makes one think of the real article, and ruins the fictitiousness of the setting, IMHO.
__________________
“Don’t believe everything you read on the internet.”
– Benjamin Franklin
Dukhat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 19 2012, 05:59 PM   #38
zarkon
Captain
 
zarkon's Avatar
 
Re: Errand of Vengeance / Fury series

Odd, I don't remember the typos, and I would have gotten american imports from forbidden plant back then, so they should have been first editions. Sure it wasn't the Janus Gate trilogy? That was a bit of a snoozefest so I wouldn't recall one way or the other, but the covers had a very similar style.

The name drops I do kind of remember, but only a couple - guess there were more that I just didn't recognise.
__________________
In defeat, malice. In victory, revenge.
zarkon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 19 2012, 07:08 PM   #39
Stevil2001
Rear Admiral
 
Stevil2001's Avatar
 
Location: 2010
Re: Errand of Vengeance / Fury series

RonG wrote: View Post
bok2384 wrote: View Post
RonG wrote: View Post
The thing is, other than these books (Vanguard, Errand series and Cloak), I'm not that familiar with "darker"/"sophisticated" TOS novels, and would love some more recommendations..
I suppose it depends on what sort of thing you're looking for. Errand of Vengeance/Fury has the connections to Vanguard, and Cloak has the kind of dark overtones that you would associate with Section 31.

I take it you're after something that goes beyond the "planet-of-the-week" formula, but I don't know if you wanted to delve into politics and intrigue or have more character-driven stories.
Well, basically I'm looking for novels that explore the TOS era / timeframe with a darker look - something that goes beyond "just" what was shown on the series itself, and delves into more complex situations, settings and characterizations - preferably more plotically or military-themed.

I hope this explains it a bit - it's more of a feeling I got when reading Vanguard, and I was looking to experience something similar (and finding it to date only in the Errand series and Cloak)..
Barbara Hambly's Crossroad is dark in terms of tone, kind of spooky, and features a warped future Federation. Probably my favorite numbered TOS novel.
__________________
"I don't like adventure. I'm a stay-at-home-and-read kind of guy."
Science's Less Accurate Grandmother
Stevil2001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 19 2012, 07:46 PM   #40
Patrick O'Brien
Captain
 
Patrick O'Brien's Avatar
 
Location: Brooklyn NY
Re: Errand of Vengeance / Fury series

I have noticed the typos I just thought it was the conversion to an ebook that caused this?
__________________
The bureaucratic mentality is the only constant in the universe.
-Dr. McCoy, Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home
Patrick O'Brien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 19 2012, 08:13 PM   #41
Hartzilla2007
Vice Admiral
 
Hartzilla2007's Avatar
 
Location: Star Trekkin Across the universe.
Re: Errand of Vengeance / Fury series

Christopher wrote: View Post
I wouldn't consider most of the books on that list to be "dark," especially not The Wounded Sky, which is one of the most idealized portrayals of the ST cast and universe you're ever likely to see.
Its also way better than the TNG episode based on it.

Steve Mollmann wrote: View Post
Barbara Hambly's Crossroad is dark in terms of tone, kind of spooky, and features a warped future Federation.
It also has the Enterprise's bowling alley make an appearance.
Hartzilla2007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 19 2012, 08:24 PM   #42
Stevil2001
Rear Admiral
 
Stevil2001's Avatar
 
Location: 2010
Re: Errand of Vengeance / Fury series

And laundry, if I remember right.
__________________
"I don't like adventure. I'm a stay-at-home-and-read kind of guy."
Science's Less Accurate Grandmother
Stevil2001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 19 2012, 10:04 PM   #43
shanejayell
Captain
 
shanejayell's Avatar
 
Location: BC, Canada
Re: Errand of Vengeance / Fury series

The Enterprise had a laundry?

*blink blink*
__________________
Avatar: Priss Asagiri, Bubblegum Crisis
shanejayell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 19 2012, 11:05 PM   #44
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Errand of Vengeance / Fury series

If I recall The Making of Star Trek correctly, it had machinery that broke down clothing into its constituent fibers, separated out the dirt and stuff, and reassembled the clothes as if brand new. Sort of a much lower-resolution equivalent of a replicator.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is online now   Reply With Quote
Old June 20 2012, 10:09 AM   #45
RonG
Captain
 
RonG's Avatar
 
Location: Fluidic Space
View RonG's Twitter Profile Send a message via Yahoo to RonG
Re: Errand of Vengeance / Fury series

Patrick O'Brien wrote: View Post
I belive Cast No Shadow by James Swallow my fit your criteria Ron. That is if you have not read it?
zarkon wrote: View Post
Bear in mind it's a post STVI book though, so just starting to slip out of the TOS era, though still there or there abouts.

Totally forgot about that one. Decentish book, although I think Valeris wasn't particularly well handled.
I read Cast No Shadow when it came out. It was nice and with a "Hunt for Red October" vibe, with Elias Vaugh as Ryan




Dukhat wrote: View Post
My memory about the first trilogy is a bit dodgy, having read it several years ago. But the one thing I do recall was that there were typos on almost every page of all three books. And really glaring typos as well. I remember thinking that I couldn't believe Pocket Books would have published these books with the amount of mistakes in them. Mind you, this is not the author's fault, but PB's editor.

Another thing I found really annoying is the use of the names of real Star Trek production personnel as characters. Okuda, Sternbach, Drexler et. al are name-dropped to the point of ridiculousness. I really wish Trek authors wouldn't do that, because in fiction one wants to imagine what those characters look like in our minds. Giving a character the name "Roddenberry" just to be cute automatically makes one think of the real article, and ruins the fictitiousness of the setting, IMHO.
zarkon wrote: View Post
Odd, I don't remember the typos, and I would have gotten american imports from forbidden plant back then, so they should have been first editions. Sure it wasn't the Janus Gate trilogy? That was a bit of a snoozefest so I wouldn't recall one way or the other, but the covers had a very similar style.

The name drops I do kind of remember, but only a couple - guess there were more that I just didn't recognise.
Patrick O'Brien wrote: View Post
I have noticed the typos I just thought it was the conversion to an ebook that caused this?
Yep - the first Errand series had quite a few typos - while distracting at first, I stopped paying attention to them after a while - goes to show that a great book overcomes mistakes in editing/proofing




Steve Mollmann wrote: View Post
Barbara Hambly's Crossroad is dark in terms of tone, kind of spooky, and features a warped future Federation. Probably my favorite numbered TOS novel.
I have Crossroad, but it's been quite a while since I read it - will have to have another look!
__________________
RonG is Right!
RonG is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
kevin ryan, tos books, vanguard

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:23 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.