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Old June 18 2012, 05:30 PM   #151
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Re: Heads up! MYTHBUSTERS season premiere tonight at 9 Eastern!

Forbin wrote: View Post
But I suppose if dropping it causes it to go off once by tripping the sear, it could then slam-fire the rest of the mag as it bounces down the stairs...
In reality it still wouldn't go off the same way the one in the movie does - it would just burn through the 30-round clip in one very quick burst, not fire anew with each bump on the way down the staircase.
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Old June 18 2012, 05:32 PM   #152
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Re: Heads up! MYTHBUSTERS season premiere tonight at 9 Eastern!

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Sort of my thinking, the gun in True Lies simply could have a design flaw, been broken or some other oddity to cause it to fire down the steps. Another aspect of this to test would have been to see if the gun -assuming it would fire as it tumbled down the stairs- would have only fired away from the hero.
It wouldn't - it would have gone through the clip in one burst, regardless of where it was pointing.

Unless it jammed partway, of course, which would still bust the myth!
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Old June 18 2012, 05:47 PM   #153
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^True.
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Old June 18 2012, 05:51 PM   #154
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Re: Heads up! MYTHBUSTERS season premiere tonight at 9 Eastern!

My dad had a little .25 auto Vespa slam-fire on him once. It was old and he was trying to fix it, and the new firing pin he installed was too long, He put a full 7-rd mag in, racked the slide, and it emptied itself into the ground. Littlest machine pistol evah!
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Old June 18 2012, 07:29 PM   #155
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Re: Heads up! MYTHBUSTERS season premiere tonight at 9 Eastern!

By the way, I just rewatched the Dollhouse episode "The Attic," which has a flashback/nightmare sequence set during combat in Afghanistan, and it seemed to me, reflecting on last night's MB episode, that they handled the gunfire pretty plausibly -- it was either short bursts of automatic fire with longer pauses between them (for reloading) or single shots fired manually. But then, they were probably basing it on real battle footage, going for realism.
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Old June 18 2012, 08:30 PM   #156
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Re: Heads up! MYTHBUSTERS season premiere tonight at 9 Eastern!

Pretty sure soldiers are advised to keep their weapons in burst mode, or single shot these days. In Nam our guys tended to hose the jungle with mag after mag and hit exactly nothing. The services learned to encourage carefully aimed shots, or short bursts. The M-16/M-4 has a 3-shot burst mode on the selector. One trigger squeeze, 3 shots come out. You have to squeeze again for another 3.

I saw a demo long ago where an instructor hip-hosed a hillside with a half dozen life-sized human targets on it, and hit nothing but the hillside. He clicked over to single shot and fired one shot center-mass on each target in just a few seconds.

Ya know, I'd be interested to see what kind of groups the Mythkids were getting in that test! They never showed us what they were shooting at!
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Old June 18 2012, 09:26 PM   #157
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Re: Heads up! MYTHBUSTERS season premiere tonight at 9 Eastern!

^To clarify, the bursts of automatic fire in the flashback scene were coming from the enemy, not the US soldiers.

But if automatic weapons are so ineffective at hitting things, why make them at all? It seems very wasteful.
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Old June 18 2012, 11:03 PM   #158
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Re: Heads up! MYTHBUSTERS season premiere tonight at 9 Eastern!

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^To clarify, the bursts of automatic fire in the flashback scene were coming from the enemy, not the US soldiers.

But if automatic weapons are so ineffective at hitting things, why make them at all? It seems very wasteful.
1) in crossfire they can be deadly

2) One guy with one can make a lot of guys keep their heads down
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Old June 19 2012, 05:27 AM   #159
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Re: Heads up! MYTHBUSTERS season premiere tonight at 9 Eastern!

With automatic weapons in combat they're mostly used for suppression. To create a hail of bullets and noise that make it hard if not impossible for the intended target to move lest the risk getting shot. In actual combat situations, like in wars, less than 5% of bullets hit a target the rest is used simply to suppress the enemy to prevent them from shooting and to allow closer-ranged combatants to get into position.
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Old June 19 2012, 10:49 AM   #160
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Re: Heads up! MYTHBUSTERS season premiere tonight at 9 Eastern!

Lonemagpie wrote: View Post
The full-auto MAc-10 fires from an open bolt, which makes it vulnerable to slam firing - but that's an issue to do with the way the firing mechanism and magazine are set up, so it might go off when reloading, or burst-fire when trying to fire single-shot. It's *not* the same as going off when dropped - that's not what "slam-firing" means.
In the film, this is precisely what happens, iirc. Jamie lee fires the Mac, panics, and drops weapon, which is still firing as it falls, even before it hits the first step. They even mention the first part of this on Mythbusters, but neglect to note that the gun in the film is already firing before it ever hits the stairs. Which is why I wondered why they were at all concerned with whether a drop impact would cause a gun to fire, as that's not at all what the film depicted.
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Old June 19 2012, 10:51 AM   #161
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Re: Heads up! MYTHBUSTERS season premiere tonight at 9 Eastern!

^Wow, in that case the firing-duration myth would come into play as well, since the scene probably took a lot longer than two seconds.
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Old June 19 2012, 10:52 AM   #162
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Re: Heads up! MYTHBUSTERS season premiere tonight at 9 Eastern!

Yup, it had the typical Hollywood Endless-clip-o-ammo™.
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Old June 19 2012, 11:36 AM   #163
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Re: Heads up! MYTHBUSTERS season premiere tonight at 9 Eastern!

chardman wrote: View Post
Lonemagpie wrote: View Post
The full-auto MAc-10 fires from an open bolt, which makes it vulnerable to slam firing - but that's an issue to do with the way the firing mechanism and magazine are set up, so it might go off when reloading, or burst-fire when trying to fire single-shot. It's *not* the same as going off when dropped - that's not what "slam-firing" means.
In the film, this is precisely what happens, iirc. Jamie lee fires the Mac, panics, and drops weapon, which is still firing as it falls, even before it hits the first step. They even mention the first part of this on Mythbusters, but neglect to note that the gun in the film is already firing before it ever hits the stairs. Which is why I wondered why they were at all concerned with whether a drop impact would cause a gun to fire, as that's not at all what the film depicted.
Is it firing before she drops it? I don't remember - but that would certainly be more plausible.

It still would run out of ammo before reaching the bottom (30-round clip) and not just fire away from the good guys, of course...

I'll to dig out the DVD and watch it again. I was pretty sure she dropped and it started on impact. I'll watch the movie and report back...
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Old June 19 2012, 11:37 AM   #164
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Re: Heads up! MYTHBUSTERS season premiere tonight at 9 Eastern!

Christopher wrote: View Post
^Wow, in that case the firing-duration myth would come into play as well, since the scene probably took a lot longer than two seconds.
Some of it was slo-mo, IIRC
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Old June 19 2012, 01:53 PM   #165
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Re: Heads up! MYTHBUSTERS season premiere tonight at 9 Eastern!

Clearest demo I've seen of a MAC 10's best use was as an assassination tool, concealed in a briefcase. A guy walks up to a full-figure target, says "Greetings, Comrade General!" squeezes a handle on his briefcase and squirts 32 rounds into the target's torso in 1.8 seconds.
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