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View Poll Results: Prometheus - Poll
A + 16 6.90%
A 27 11.64%
A - 32 13.79%
B + 43 18.53%
B 33 14.22%
B - 21 9.05%
C + 19 8.19%
C 8 3.45%
C - 15 6.47%
D 12 5.17%
F 6 2.59%
Voters: 232. You may not vote on this poll

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Old June 18 2012, 07:51 PM   #631
137th Gebirg
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

Saul wrote: View Post
Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
Even Scott's out-of-movie attempts at making the film seem profound fail to be consistent with what was actually in the film. Take the Space Jesus idea, for example...

With that bit now nice and explained, let's get to the bigger question -- what did we do to make God/our creators angry? Well, if you theorized that it was because we crucified Jesus, you win! Confirming that at one point the script explicitly spelled this out, Scott says that was the direction they were taking with the story -- at least at first. "We definitely did, and then we thought it was a little too on the nose," he admits. "But if you look at it as an 'our children are misbehaving down there' scenario, there are moments where it looks like we’ve gone out of control, running around with armor and skirts, which of course would be the Roman Empire. And they were given a long run. A thousand years before their disintegration actually started to happen. And you can say, 'Let’s send down one more of our emissaries to see if he can stop it.' Guess what? They crucified him."

http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplayli...theus-20120614
Why would the Engineers be moved to destroy us because of our crucifixion of their emissary Jesus? Wasn't his sacrifice for the sins of man the whole point of Jesus' death? Isn't self-sacrifice to advance humanity's development the entire basis of the Engineer's philosophy as witnessed by the beginning of the film and their temple? So why be upset by the simple fulfillment of the most basic tenet of their belief system?
Don't get that either. I would have thought that they'd be pissed for another reason like people starting to believe in Jesus and worship him instead of them.
Based on my previous post - My take was that maybe the "mission" Jesus undertook was to teach the Romans the need for self-sacrifice, with the hopes that our species may have become an advanced-enough civilization to grasp the concept. To paraphrase one of the mantras in the movie - "Every king must die" - perhaps it was hoped that whoever was serving as Caesar during that time may have been compelled to die for the Greater Good of civilization. Methinks the Engineers heavily underestimated their creations' instinct for self-preservation - a potentially unique adaptation to our species during its development on a hostile Earth - an adaptation they didn't foresee.
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Old June 18 2012, 07:52 PM   #632
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

137th Gebirg wrote: View Post
He's one of the big proponents of the Ancient Alien theory. He's on the History Channel and on any other channel (TLC, Discovery) along with a bunch of other folks that has shows produced on the topic. Very much the mouthpiece of the overall movement - and the most polished. Just wish he would get that damn hair under control.
Thank you, I figured it was something like that...does he actually look like a Centari intentionally then?
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Old June 18 2012, 08:04 PM   #633
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

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I'm still curious about the relief of the xenomorph on the wall myself. If they're just supposed to be another bio-weapon or black goo mutation, why are they the only ones that share the same Giger-esque ribbing and bio-mechanical look as the Engineers?

In the "Art of" book, Ridley talks about the mutations taking on the form of their hosts, but it was shown pretty clearly in the movie that the bio-mechanical detail was only part of a bio-suit, and the Engineers look much more human underneath. So I don't think the xenomorphs could have gotten it that way.

Maybe they were some kind of special creation the Engineers patterned after themselves or something. Or maybe they even come from the same home planet...
I was wondering that. Though, parts of the biosuit on the pilot himself seemed integrated with his skin. Also, why do the hives the xenos make resemble the Engineers' structures?

Maybe the xenos were a mere engineering tool...to create structures. "We pale giants are too lazy to build, let's make some worker ants. But what if they breed incontrollably? We'll engineer them so they require hosts to breed."

So the xenos are their David's, their artificial lifeforms.

Or not. The ALIENS don't seem designed for digging tunnels. Acid for blood is messy, too. They'd need a kill switch to make sure the aliens could be eradicated when their job was done.

And we don't know the end stage of Alien metamorphasis. We think we do. At some point the hive changes into something else, maybe the Newborn alien in Resurrection wasn't a hybrid, maybe it was the next step in the xeno "life cycle". hell, maybe it was the kill switch. It kills all the xenos.
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Old June 18 2012, 09:16 PM   #634
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

I just got home to find the book Prometheus: The Art Of The Film waiting for me from Amazon. This is a really nice book and I'm looking forward to reading it. Maybe I'll also get some clues regarding some of the thinking that went into the film.

I also picked up Aliens: Colonial Marines Technical Manual. Another nice book with lots of tech about the stuff we saw in the film as well as stuff we didn't get to see.
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Old June 18 2012, 09:20 PM   #635
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

Starkers wrote: View Post
137th Gebirg wrote: View Post
He's one of the big proponents of the Ancient Alien theory. He's on the History Channel and on any other channel (TLC, Discovery) along with a bunch of other folks that has shows produced on the topic. Very much the mouthpiece of the overall movement - and the most polished. Just wish he would get that damn hair under control.
Thank you, I figured it was something like that...does he actually look like a Centari intentionally then?
I'm thinking it's a Greek thing.
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Old June 18 2012, 09:44 PM   #636
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

If anyone's heard of it, Kevin Smith's new Blip TV series "Spoilers" covered this movie last week. In the show Smith has taken a group of people to see a movie and then he has a session where they discuss aspects of the movie, followed by Smith's own reactions and then usually a relevant interview. (For Prometheus it was David Lindeloff (sp?.) The show itself isn't too bad but Smith seems a bit... too... "hopped up" than how he usually is, like he's trying too hard to be an excited show host.

Decent enough show, though.

Spoilers with Kevin Smith
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Old June 18 2012, 10:31 PM   #637
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
I'm always wondering why we see all this, but the scriptwriters don't.
It's always easier to see what's wrong or not working in a piece of art when you're not the one who's created it. It's possible to just be too close to something to see its flaws.

There is also, of course, the attendant issues of deadlines and timeframes and production pressures to get a workable draft down by a certain date, and if it's not completely perfect, well, too bad, that's the deadline.
But there is a hundred people involved during pre-production and production.
Of course there are. But the majority of them are not in a position to tell the director of a film what works and what doesn't, let alone a director of Ridley Scott's calibre.

Expecting that some wardrobe assistant is going to kick down Ridley's door to tell him his script doesn't make any sense is ridiculous.

Likewise, studio execs have their say, sometimes for good and sometimes (usually) for ill. There's not much to be done about that either. It's just the nature of the business.
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Old June 18 2012, 10:44 PM   #638
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

^^^ Probably one of the reasons the final cut was trimmed down by almost 30 minutes for theatrical release. I will honestly never understand this mentality.
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Old June 18 2012, 10:45 PM   #639
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

Why don't you understand it? The people paying for the film to be made have a say in how it gets made. I don't know that I necessarily like that particular aspect of it all, but it is what it is.
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Old June 18 2012, 10:57 PM   #640
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I have a hard time with stupidity, I guess. M'kay?
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Old June 18 2012, 10:59 PM   #641
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

To be fair a lot of films recently are bloated and could use a trim. Though they seem to trim the wrong films and of the wrong things.
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Old June 18 2012, 11:06 PM   #642
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

137th Gebirg wrote: View Post
I have a hard time with stupidity, I guess. M'kay?
Sorry if that last post came across as incendiary... I was aiming more for rhetorical. I definitely agree with you re: the stupidity thing though.
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Old June 18 2012, 11:17 PM   #643
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

I've started reading Prometheus: The Art Of The Film and so far I've gleaned a few nuggets.

The ship was originally supposed to be called Magellan and was later changed to Prometheus. I don't know why yet or if it's significant. The next thing thats been mentioned a few times is that Ridley Scott used the 1979 film Alien as the sole source or jumping off point for Prometheus. He doesn't seem to have gone out of his way to contradict latter films, but he didn't feel beholden to them.

One of the primary ideas he started from was: who was the Space Jockey and how did he come to be there? That was the jumping off point. He acknowledges that while the Space Jockey does look like he/it could be an alien RS also thought it could just as easily be a humanoid form in a deteriorating space suit thats been there for some 2000 years. That was his jumping off point.

Prometheus was initially planned as more of a direct prequel/tie-in to the 1979 film, but as the project developed they saw the opportunity to paint on a broader canvas, one that would be tenuously connected to the 1979 film, but not anchored by it. What I get out of this is the Giger xenomorph seen in Alien isn't necessarily the ultimate form of the Engineers' bioweapon. It seems that it is interpreted as but one possible form.

There is a parallel in the film. The Engineers' bioweapon was also a way of creating life and it got away from them. Now we have David (as well as Ash) representing humanity artificially creating life and is it possible that we could face a similar fate? Could David and his kind develop minds of their own and turn on us? It's a question that is suggested in the film, and David's actions can make you wonder.

Finally here is a quote from Production Designer, Arthur Max:

"We wanted to be not very comprehensible, not very explained and almost unknowable." ... "It was a challenge to come up with a whole society and culture that is more advanced than ours in most ways and maintain the intrigue of it. But by not explaining it, how do you describe it? That was the challenge, So visually we tried to leave enough information to where the audience would be filling in their own interpretation of how things might've worked, and what they may be doing with the objects at hand. How we suggested that is the dynamic of the film." ... "Another big challenge was how to incorporate the shape language and design language of Giger, which is always lurking there because of the fan base---and Ridley was aware of this too---had expectations about where we were going to take this. There was a lot of pendulum swinging between 'Shall we embrace Giger or shall we do something new?' In the end what evolved was to incorporate some of what he had done, but make it less bio and more mechanoid. We decided to keep a consistency in the design language, still keep the form, but to do a cleaner version. It's still very much a child born out of his vision, and we wanted to retain that."

He also mentions the collaboration between the writers and designers and the cross-pollination of ideas between them.
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Old June 18 2012, 11:23 PM   #644
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

Warped9 wrote: View Post
I just got home to find the book Prometheus: The Art Of The Film waiting for me from Amazon. This is a really nice book and I'm looking forward to reading it. Maybe I'll also get some clues regarding some of the thinking that went into the film.
Yeah I flipped through the book and it seemed pretty cool. They talked about how the Engineers were originally going to be upsized to their proper height in post (as they appeared in Alien), but Ridley felt they already looked large enough as is.

The movie is also featured in the new Cinefex (along with Avengers). Looks like there's probably some interesting info in there too, but I haven't had a chance to read it all yet.
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Old June 19 2012, 12:01 AM   #645
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

137th Gebirg wrote: View Post
I can't remember specifically if the team, towards, the end, made the specific assumption (in-dialog) that this was a bio-weapons facility or not. I have vague recollection of this, but can't be sure.
Captain Janek (to Shaw as she's donning her spacesuit and popping painkillers): "You know what this place is? Those 'Engineers'...this ain't their home. It's an installation. Maybe even military. Now, they put it out here in the middle of nowhere 'cuz they're not stupid enough to make weapons of mass destruction on their own doorstep. That's what all that shit is in those vases. They made it here, it got out...it turned on 'em. The End."

In the theatrical cut, it's the Zombie Fifield attack that leads Janek to this conclusion, combined with their disastrous second trip to the temple earlier that day and the mutation/death of Holloway. In the script (and possibly Director's Cut), the Fifield attack comes after this scene.
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