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View Poll Results: Prometheus - Poll
A + 16 6.90%
A 27 11.64%
A - 32 13.79%
B + 43 18.53%
B 33 14.22%
B - 21 9.05%
C + 19 8.19%
C 8 3.45%
C - 15 6.47%
D 12 5.17%
F 6 2.59%
Voters: 232. You may not vote on this poll

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Old June 18 2012, 02:11 PM   #616
Misfit Toy
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
Professor Zoom wrote: View Post
Shurik wrote: View Post
Exactly. Also, it fails at portraying scientists. Those idiots are on the alien planet, have just made probably the greatest discovery in the human history, and then the biologist runs away at first sight of alien life and the geologist claims that he has nothing to do there? Where is their curiosity? For a real scientist, being in this situation should be like being a kid in a candy store.
And not to be out done, what about Hipster Archaeology guy.... during the autopsy, he could barely be bothered... the BIGGEST discovery of LIFETIMES... and he could barely sit there... maybe he wanted to go listen to some emo music and write poetry...
Yeah, Holloway was annoying too. Okay, so you didn't get to speak directly to the Gods, but it's still the most amazing discovery in history. But he just pouts around the ship like a kid who didn't get a toy for Christmas and starts acting like a dick to the android.
No, no - the "scientists" and their disdain for actual discovery are the result of the Conservatives winning the "war on science". This also explains the rise of an evil corporate entity like Weyland.


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Last edited by Misfit Toy; June 18 2012 at 04:20 PM. Reason: sp.
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Old June 18 2012, 03:31 PM   #617
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

"We joined this mission to disprove things, not discover them!"

"Look something alien. There's so much we can learn from it. Get rid of it."


"Why are you here, Charlize?"

"Because I want money! MONEY! MONEY! AND POWER! Also, my daddy don't wuv me."

"How is that motivation for travelling across vast distances to an uncharted world?"

"MONEY!"
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Old June 18 2012, 04:33 PM   #618
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

Pics of the Engineers + behind the scenes:

http://www.prometheusforum.net/discussion/2118
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Old June 18 2012, 05:00 PM   #619
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

Finally saw the movie last week.
Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
Even Scott's out-of-movie attempts at making the film seem profound fail to be consistent with what was actually in the film. Take the Space Jesus idea, for example...

With that bit now nice and explained, let's get to the bigger question -- what did we do to make God/our creators angry? Well, if you theorized that it was because we crucified Jesus, you win! Confirming that at one point the script explicitly spelled this out, Scott says that was the direction they were taking with the story -- at least at first. "We definitely did, and then we thought it was a little too on the nose," he admits. "But if you look at it as an 'our children are misbehaving down there' scenario, there are moments where it looks like we’ve gone out of control, running around with armor and skirts, which of course would be the Roman Empire. And they were given a long run. A thousand years before their disintegration actually started to happen. And you can say, 'Let’s send down one more of our emissaries to see if he can stop it.' Guess what? They crucified him."

http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplayli...theus-20120614
Why would the Engineers be moved to destroy us because of our crucifixion of their emissary Jesus? Wasn't his sacrifice for the sins of man the whole point of Jesus' death? Isn't self-sacrifice to advance humanity's development the entire basis of the Engineer's philosophy as witnessed by the beginning of the film and their temple? So why be upset by the simple fulfillment of the most basic tenet of their belief system?
My take was that maybe the "mission" Jesus undertook was to teach the Romans the need for self-sacrifice, with the hopes that our species may have become an advanced-enough civilization to grasp the concept. To paraphrase one of the mantras in the movie - "Every king must die" - perhaps it was hoped that whoever was serving as Caesar during that time may have been compelled to die for the Greater Good of civilization. Methinks the Engineers heavily underestimated their creations' instinct for self-preservation - a potentially unique adaptation to our species during its development on a hostile Earth - an adaptation they didn't foresee.

My other thoughts:
I can't remember specifically if the team, towards, the end, made the specific assumption (in-dialog) that this was a bio-weapons facility or not. I have vague recollection of this, but can't be sure. A 14-year-old boy appeared to have either a seizure or go into diabetic coma next to me and my wife in the middle of the movie, so some details are a bit fuzzy. I have no idea if he pulled out of it, but he seemed to be somewhat lucid when the EMT's came to get him out. In any case, I think the assumption (and I'm going to focus on that word - assumption) on the part of the crew and some posters here is in error - although I'm sure we were meant to think it was this way, either deliberately or through sloppy dialog and editing - in so far as the black oil could be used as a weapon, depending on how it was wielded. Remember Genesis in ST2 & 3? It was a tool built by the Federation to create life. The Klingons saw it as a biogenic weapon, capable of destroying life on whole worlds. Both viewpoints, of course, were true. The oil was used to break down the molecules of an Engineer to create life on Earth. It was also going to be used en-mass to destroy it - not because it was designed that way and hidden away on some distant moon, but because the Engineers knew of our human nature. All they would have to do is drop all those canisters on Earth, they would crack open and the oil would be programmed to our nature to destroy us. The engineers weren't afraid of it, as for them it was a tool to create life in selfless sacrifice of their own. For them, it was a sacred substance that could be used to either build or destroy - morally neutral.

It is entirely possible that some Engineers set up this remote base so that others didn't find out about their plans. If Scott is taking from various aspects of Earth mythology, I think he's going for a mix of the Kabbalah and Indian mythology next - and starting to work with the nature of Seraphim and fallen angels. What if these Engineers who wanted to destroy us were misinterpreted in ancient times as the angels who were cast out of Paradise, jealous of our own creation as humans. The war between these angels could very well have been a civil war between the creator Engineers and the destroying Engineers, and we were just a pawn world in the greater war. The Indian Mahabharata spoke of a massive war with great weapons in ancient times. If Scott is going von Daniken on this, why not go all the way?

I, too, am starting to think that he should have left the xenomorph connection out of all this. Let it stand on its own as an Ancient Aliens/Ancient Mythology tale. But I think the temptation to pull it back into the Alien fold of his original film was too great. I'm giving it a B+. I was trying to look deeper beyond the surface meaning of the film and definitely saw something there. I don't feel that I was as distracted by the stupidity that always shows up in the form of modern horror movie tropes, knowing there was something else there - bigger and far more significant - to focus on.
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Old June 18 2012, 05:58 PM   #620
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

So the nature of those worms in the cannister room was inherently hostile, too?

And goes back to what the holographic engineers were running from, what killed them? Something in their nature or another life form's nature was destructive.



Why where the cannisters in a sealed containment room that when opened made them leak, while the others were in a ship's cargo hold with no apparent signs of stasis needed?

Assuming they are the same thing, which may be a mistake.
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Old June 18 2012, 06:14 PM   #621
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

Disruptor wrote: View Post
So the nature of those worms in the cannister room was inherently hostile, too?
The worms and the oil were in the presence of humans. The worms were the fuel, but too morally ambiguous to cause problems. The humans present were the accelerant and dipshit biologist-boy who treated the snake like a pet was the match that lit the flame.
Disruptor wrote: View Post
And goes back to what the holographic engineers were running from, what killed them? Something in their nature or another life form's nature was destructive.
If my supposition about the nature of these engineers is correct, and that they were the "Fallen Angels" and the "Destroyers" in Earth mythology, it is entirely possible that their creations lashed out at them. They probably thought that, since they were the creators of the oil, they could control their creation as well. A cardinal mistake, made many times by humans and their creations. If they are close to us genetically, it is entirely possible that they suffer from human error as well - and arrogance.
Why where the cannisters in a sealed containment room that when opened made them leak, while the others were in a ship's cargo hold with no apparent signs of stasis needed?

Assuming they are the same thing, which may be a mistake.
Not sure about that one yet, though I have an idea - and this is all supposition on my part. There seemed to be less of the leaking canisters present in the first room with the big head and many many more in the bomber cargo hold. I would surmise that, since there were less canisters in the first room, there was less oil to distribute and contain the "bad vibes" coming off the humans. The "evil nature" being programmed into them was too much for the canisters to contain and they boiled over, whereas there were enough canisters in the cargo hold to absorb the negative energy without breaking their seals. Just a guess.

Someone else on this thread coined the term "mood goo". A tongue-in-cheek description to be sure, but quite accurate nonetheless, IMO. I liken them more to a substance that absorbs and contains energy, much like battery acid (acid? hmmm...). In this case, positive and negative metaphysical energy. If a conventional battery is overcharged too much with a certain kind of battery, might it not explode?

Sadly, it's not unlike the Pink Mood Slime from Ghostbusters II, methinks.
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Old June 18 2012, 07:24 PM   #622
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

I'm still curious about the relief of the xenomorph on the wall myself. If they're just supposed to be another bio-weapon or black goo mutation, why are they the only ones that share the same Giger-esque ribbing and bio-mechanical look as the Engineers?

In the "Art of" book, Ridley talks about the mutations taking on the form of their hosts, but it was shown pretty clearly in the movie that the bio-mechanical detail was only part of a bio-suit, and the Engineers look much more human underneath. So I don't think the xenomorphs could have gotten it that way.

Maybe they were some kind of special creation the Engineers patterned after themselves or something. Or maybe they even come from the same home planet...
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Old June 18 2012, 07:34 PM   #623
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

Maybe the Xenomorphs aren't bio-engineered weapons at all. Maybe they're just an organism that the Engineers know about. Those big vases were just full of xenomorph sperm.
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Old June 18 2012, 07:36 PM   #624
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

davejames wrote: View Post
I'm still curious about the relief of the xenomorph on the wall myself. If they're just supposed to be another bio-weapon or black goo mutation, why are they the only ones that share the same Giger-esque ribbing and bio-mechanical look as the Engineers?

In the "Art of" book, Ridley talks about the mutations taking on the form of their hosts, but it was shown pretty clearly in the movie that the bio-mechanical detail was only part of a bio-suit, and the Engineers look much more human underneath. So I don't think the xenomorphs could have gotten it that way.

Maybe they were some kind of special creation the Engineers patterned after themselves or something. Or maybe they even come from the same home planet...
Was wondering that myself. It is possible that, in order to successfully sacrifice themselves for the creation of new life via the black goo, they had to purge some inner demon/all negative energy. Perhaps the mural of the proto-xenomorph is a warning to the Engineers, what could happen if any negative energy remained within them and attempted to use the black goo without being properly prepared. The facehugger/squid thing that came out of Shaw definitely had the same pointy-headed look to it that the proto-Alien had (matching the mural), so it could already be considered corrupt. The corrupt nature of humans had infected Holloway's "seed" and was further corrupted when gestating within Shaw. The squid further carried that corruption to the Engineer at the end who, himself, may have also been one of the corrupted "fallen angels" of that race that wanted to see our entire species extinguished. What we see emerge from his guts is the result of that collective corruption and negative energy, as predicted by the mural.
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Old June 18 2012, 07:43 PM   #625
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

It was just a matter of time:
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Old June 18 2012, 07:47 PM   #626
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

^^^ Love that guy! And the hair...OH the hair...
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Old June 18 2012, 07:47 PM   #627
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

Ok who is that guy?
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Old June 18 2012, 07:48 PM   #628
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

He's one of the big proponents of the Ancient Alien theory. He's on the History Channel and on any other channel (TLC, Discovery) along with a bunch of other folks that has shows produced on the topic. Very much the mouthpiece of the overall movement - and the most polished. Just wish he would get that damn hair under control.
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Old June 18 2012, 07:48 PM   #629
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

"Ancient Aliens" guy. Basically, if we don't know where it came from, he thinks aliens did it.
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Old June 18 2012, 07:50 PM   #630
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
Even Scott's out-of-movie attempts at making the film seem profound fail to be consistent with what was actually in the film. Take the Space Jesus idea, for example...

With that bit now nice and explained, let's get to the bigger question -- what did we do to make God/our creators angry? Well, if you theorized that it was because we crucified Jesus, you win! Confirming that at one point the script explicitly spelled this out, Scott says that was the direction they were taking with the story -- at least at first. "We definitely did, and then we thought it was a little too on the nose," he admits. "But if you look at it as an 'our children are misbehaving down there' scenario, there are moments where it looks like we’ve gone out of control, running around with armor and skirts, which of course would be the Roman Empire. And they were given a long run. A thousand years before their disintegration actually started to happen. And you can say, 'Let’s send down one more of our emissaries to see if he can stop it.' Guess what? They crucified him."

http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplayli...theus-20120614
Why would the Engineers be moved to destroy us because of our crucifixion of their emissary Jesus? Wasn't his sacrifice for the sins of man the whole point of Jesus' death? Isn't self-sacrifice to advance humanity's development the entire basis of the Engineer's philosophy as witnessed by the beginning of the film and their temple? So why be upset by the simple fulfillment of the most basic tenet of their belief system?
Don't get that either. I would have thought that they'd be pissed for another reason like people starting to believe in Jesus and worship him instead of them.
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