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View Poll Results: Prometheus - Poll
A + 16 6.90%
A 27 11.64%
A - 32 13.79%
B + 43 18.53%
B 33 14.22%
B - 21 9.05%
C + 19 8.19%
C 8 3.45%
C - 15 6.47%
D 12 5.17%
F 6 2.59%
Voters: 232. You may not vote on this poll

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Old June 17 2012, 08:22 PM   #571
The Festivus Awakens
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

Reposting my comments from the forum that shall not be named...


Randomly farting out a clusterfuck of ideas cribbed from Milton, Nietzche, the Bible, and von Däniken in the direction of a movie script does not make a film deep or insightful if it doesn't follow through with actually exploring the ramifications of those ideas.

I loved Lost for the characters and drama, but Lindelof's and Spaiht's script on Prometheus incorporate some of the worst elements of that show's mythology and characterization. People don't talk to each other about clearly important things of immediate relevance to everyone (Giant alien squid on the loose? Nah, that can wait for later). Mystery is layered upon mystery without resolution or with hand-waving at the last minute (and here we don't even get the hand-waving explanation). Previously smart characters behave stupidly purely for the sake of advancing the plot, although in the case of Prometheus' Shaggy the geologist with the 3D mapping robots who somehow gets lost and Scooby the biologist who runs from the (dead) greatest discovery in the history of mankind but then pets the space cobra with the obvious threat display like it's a kitten, we have no evidence they were ever smart other than their job description.

The movie suffers from clearly having been meant to more directly lead into Alien and then being walked back in rewrites to be a more vaguely connected prequel that doesn't directly lead into it. That's why things happen that were obviously meant to explain how we found things arranged on LV-426 in Alien, but with different planets (that look exactly the same on approach), different alien variants with similar purposes, and different ships that wind up in exactly the same condition.

The fact that it didn't live up to my expectations from one of the greatest scifi directors of all time does play a part in my disappointment. But that's a silly complaint equivalent to saying we shouldn't expect more from Steven Spielberg than from Michael Bay. Nor does it change my impression that the film's script and editing is a mess. The cinematography and effects are beautiful and glorious to behold on the big screen (and why it's still worth seeing in theaters), and Michael Fassbender's performance is fantastic, but a polished turd is still a turd nonetheless.
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Old June 17 2012, 08:46 PM   #572
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

^Couldn't agree more. I too loved Lost, and didn't actually care that we didn't get all the answers, because I loved the characters. Here I didn't give a shit about the characters so all that was left to do was count the plot holes/stupid moments etc.

Like I've said before, I don't expect a film to be perfect, I don't expect all the answers, but the sheer amount of stupidity/bad editing/messy scripting on show here in a film made by a true directorial giant...I mean seriously most of what's wrong with Prometheus is actually relatively easy to fix, I'm just amazed it seems no attempt was made...or maybe it was and the original cut was even more of a mess?
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Old June 17 2012, 09:05 PM   #573
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
Previously smart characters behave stupidly purely for the sake of advancing the plot, although in the case of Prometheus' Shaggy the geologist with the 3D mapping robots who somehow gets lost and Scooby the biologist who runs from the (dead) greatest discovery in the history of mankind but then pets the space cobra with the obvious threat display like it's a kitten, we have no evidence they were ever smart other than their job description.
What is even more bizarre about shaggy is that he claims there is nothing to do - he's on an alien planet and not curious about what the rocks are made out of??
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Old June 17 2012, 09:44 PM   #574
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
The movie suffers from clearly having been meant to more directly lead into Alien and then being walked back in rewrites to be a more vaguely connected prequel that doesn't directly lead into it. That's why things happen that were obviously meant to explain how we found things arranged on LV-426 in Alien, but with different planets (that look exactly the same on approach), different alien variants with similar purposes, and different ships that wind up in exactly the same condition.
Aside from the uneven characterization, this is my main problem with the film. The Alien references really serve no purpose within the context of this film, and the only purpose they serve in the context of Alien is to distract us by making us think of Prometheus when we watch it.

There's absolutely nothing in Alien that needed to be explained that wasn't. Everything in the film speaks for itself and it's better off for leaving out any unnecessary exposition that would simply lessen the eeriness and mystery and tension. I don't mind Aliens, it's about as good a sequel as Alien could have had, and there's a lot of good character development (again, as distinct from "finding out more information about the character") for Ripley. But the rest of what followed was all garbage, and ultimately I really feel Alien is a film that never works better than when it stands alone.

Prometheus also could have been such a film, but instead it preoccupies itself with making us think about Alien while we watch it. As Lucas would say (and I made this connection in my own mind before the RedLetterMedia guys even put up their review, so I'm not simply parroting their criticism) "it's like poetry, they rhyme!"
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Old June 17 2012, 09:53 PM   #575
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
The movie suffers from clearly having been meant to more directly lead into Alien and then being walked back in rewrites to be a more vaguely connected prequel that doesn't directly lead into it. That's why things happen that were obviously meant to explain how we found things arranged on LV-426 in Alien, but with different planets (that look exactly the same on approach), different alien variants with similar purposes, and different ships that wind up in exactly the same condition.
If we never get a sequel to Prometheus, I am going to assume that the derelict vessel from the original Alien is actually the one that Shaw and David stole. They accidentally wake up the sleeping Engineer on that ship. The Engineer kills David, eats Shaw for breakfast, and then gets in the pilot's chair. Unfortunately, Shaw was still infected with alien goo, and that poor Engineer that ate her crashes on LV-426 while giving birth to a xenomorph.

Bam.
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Old June 17 2012, 09:59 PM   #576
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

JoeZhang wrote: View Post
Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
Previously smart characters behave stupidly purely for the sake of advancing the plot, although in the case of Prometheus' Shaggy the geologist with the 3D mapping robots who somehow gets lost and Scooby the biologist who runs from the (dead) greatest discovery in the history of mankind but then pets the space cobra with the obvious threat display like it's a kitten, we have no evidence they were ever smart other than their job description.
What is even more bizarre about shaggy is that he claims there is nothing to do - he's on an alien planet and not curious about what the rocks are made out of??
I was surprised when he revealed that he was a geologist. I thought he was there for security, he seemed to be more concerned with the flamethrower than anything else.
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Old June 17 2012, 10:21 PM   #577
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
The fact that it didn't live up to my expectations from one of the greatest scifi directors of all time does play a part in my disappointment. But that's a silly complaint equivalent to saying we shouldn't expect more from Steven Spielberg than from Michael Bay. Nor does it change my impression that the film's script and editing is a mess. The cinematography and effects are beautiful and glorious to behold on the big screen (and why it's still worth seeing in theaters), and Michael Fassbender's performance is fantastic, but a polished turd is still a turd nonetheless.
Indeed, Lindelof might prove to be a bit of a one hit wonder.

For anyone interested, there's an insightful and admittedly protracted interview with Lindelof on the Kevin Pollack show where he discusses Prometheus in passing (2:18.43).






BANZAI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Old June 17 2012, 10:53 PM   #578
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

Warped9 wrote: View Post

I think it boils down to a lot of people wanting something simpler overall with more straightforward answers and simpler situations.
For me, this isn't true. I think the problem of the movie is that it IS simplistic and straightforward. Characters behaving stupidly in order to move the plot forward.

Seriously, if you were hiring people to go on a mission to discover alien life would you have hired the members of this crew, like the idiot geologist and cowardly biologist?

I would have LOVED something more complicated, something with more complex humanity. Something CHALLENGING. Something grown up.

But this wasn't. Let's just look at Shaw's journey... she went from a woman of faith to.... a woman of faith who wants to question her creators... ooooo.

It looked good though.
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Old June 17 2012, 11:15 PM   #579
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

His reactions to George Martin's (legitimate) comments on the Lost ending alone showed what kind of childish, self-absorbed, unprofessional hack he really is. Orci & Co are the similar type. Criticism on the internet always comes from basement dwellers who have no life, and if a fellow writer criticizes it, they react with anger.
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Old June 17 2012, 11:21 PM   #580
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

Professor Zoom wrote: View Post
Let's just look at Shaw's journey... she went from a woman of faith to.... a woman of faith who wants to question her creators... ooooo.
Plus, what kind of shit scientist responds to a biologist questioning her dismissal of Darwinism by saying "that's what I choose to believe?" There's nothing wrong with being a scientist who has personal faith, but when your faith is your sole response to even the most meager form of peer review, you fail at science.

She should have been laughed out of the room, but unfortunately the Wonder Twins of Fifield and Milburn just sit there like dumbasses who aren't the least bit bothered that they just spent two years in stasis for what sounds like a fool's errand at this point. Granted, through sheer force of plot Shaw turns out to be right about human origins, but that doesn't excuse her complete lack of evidence for her conclusions. Cave paintings of giant men pointing at the stars do not our creators make.

Not to mention, Ridley Scott did that interview where he insinuates that humans killing Space Jesus (who apparently looked like Dr. Manhattan if he was an Engineer, but I guess they neglected mentioning that in the Gospels) 2,000 years ago was possibly the catalyst for the Engineers turning on us, yet he includes visual evidence within the film that they continued to visit and influence human civilizations such as the Mayans and Hawaiians long after that. Why still leave a roadmap to their "military installation" centuries after we betrayed them?

I can come up with answers to these questions, and rather enjoy that kind of thing, but that doesn't make it a good movie for raising so many questions and logical problems that go unanswered. A little mystery and some unanswered questions are fine, but if your whole movie relies on nothing but that, it's just lazy screenwriting that tries to look profound when it isn't.
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Old June 17 2012, 11:24 PM   #581
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

I'm always wondering why we see all this, but the scriptwriters don't.
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Old June 17 2012, 11:28 PM   #582
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

banzaiduck wrote: View Post
Indeed, Lindelof might prove to be a bit of a one hit wonder.

For anyone interested, there's an insightful and admittedly protracted interview with Lindelof on the Kevin Pollack show where he discusses Prometheus in passing.
Care to point out a time in the video? It's over two hours long, I'm not keen on watching that whole thing.
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Old June 17 2012, 11:28 PM   #583
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
I'm always wondering why we see all this, but the scriptwriters don't.
It's always easier to see what's wrong or not working in a piece of art when you're not the one who's created it. It's possible to just be too close to something to see its flaws.

There is also, of course, the attendant issues of deadlines and timeframes and production pressures to get a workable draft down by a certain date, and if it's not completely perfect, well, too bad, that's the deadline.
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Old June 17 2012, 11:38 PM   #584
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
Professor Zoom wrote: View Post
Let's just look at Shaw's journey... she went from a woman of faith to.... a woman of faith who wants to question her creators... ooooo.
Plus, what kind of shit scientist responds to a biologist questioning her dismissal of Darwinism by saying "that's what I choose to believe?" There's nothing wrong with being a scientist who has personal faith, but when your faith is your sole response to even the most meager form of peer review, you fail at science.
The whole movie sorta fails at science... it's a science fiction film written by people who I wonder even have a passing knowledge of science and how science work.

Not that I need perfect science in a movie... but when... Ok, one of the scenes that drove me nuts was when there was a "perfect match" in our DNA and the DNA of the engineers. Yet.... we look NOTHING like them. We share 99% of our DNA with chimps and they look REALLY different than we do.

And also... if the engineers gave life to Earth, wouldn't EVERYTHING have the SAME DNA?

If the movie has said there was a match, but not 100%, that we just SHARED some DNA... then ok... fine....

Again... this movie is simplistic. It couldn't be sharing DNA, because people would get confused, it HAD to be 100% for the story to make "sense."

As I first said, the movie is twaddle.
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Old June 18 2012, 12:00 AM   #585
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Re: PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

Professor Zoom wrote: View Post

If the movie has said there was a match, but not 100%, that we just SHARED some DNA... then ok... fine....

Again... this movie is simplistic. It couldn't be sharing DNA, because people would get confused, it HAD to be 100% for the story to make "sense."
My thoughts on this were that the Engineers represented Humanity's evolutionary future. Perhaps a few million years ago, the Engineers looked much like us. Overtime, however, they grew larger, lost their hair, and turned grey. Maybe that's where we're headed. Humans have been getting taller over the centuries.
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