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Old June 11 2012, 05:28 PM   #211
Ian Keldon
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Re: what's next for Marvel (movies)?

Dream wrote: View Post
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I would tend to agree. It was silly. But Avi was only thinking of adding to the draw by forcing a big "name" villain on Rami. Conversely, he did not want Rami to use any variation on the Vulture because he/she is not a "name" villain with recognition outside the S-M fan community.
Yet, Avi allowed Raimi to use Sandman who wasn't that much more popular?
Certainly more popular than Vulture.

I know that the Harry plot had to be there since it had been building up since the first movie, but getting rid of Sandman or Venom from the script would have greatly helped make Spider-Man 3 better.
Not disagreeing with you. Avi frakked up by forcing Venom into the film, which my understanding of the original story was supposed to be a Sandman/Vulture teamup in addition to the Harry subplot.
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Old June 11 2012, 05:44 PM   #212
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Re: what's next for Marvel (movies)?

Avi Arad's track record certainly isn't spotless, but he was instrumental in turning Marvel around and launching Marvel as a successful movie brand. People should remember that and not dismiss him as if his influence was all negative.
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Old June 11 2012, 08:56 PM   #213
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Re: what's next for Marvel (movies)?

The thing with Avi/Sony though is that because SM3 still made scads of money, set an opening day record they were thus blinded to the creative missteps they caused with the film. That film could've been even bigger but WOM curbed it's OW record into the final looking just "good" instead of phenomenal.
It was that ego that wanted to give us The Vultress. That ego that made them confident enough to tell Raimi he couldn't have an extra 6 months. That wanted to rush and do what they wanted. When what they wanted had already yielded creative fruit in SM3.

I'm very cautions about what these egos are giving us for Webb's reboot. I already don't like the hints of Peter being predestined to be Spider-man.
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Old June 11 2012, 09:01 PM   #214
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Re: what's next for Marvel (movies)?

That's why I dislike Avi so much. His ego gets in the way of allowing the creative people do their jobs. I was excited for "Spider-Man 3" as anyone else, and especially excited to see Venom and Gwen...the movie was just very flawed because of the things that he forced upon Rami and Alvin Sargent and the rest of them did their best with what they were forced with, but ultimately it just fell apart and wasn't a very good finale to an otherwise excellent trilogy.
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Old June 11 2012, 09:06 PM   #215
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Re: what's next for Marvel (movies)?

So you're content to focus on the negative with Avi and ignore the good films he's been involved in and his central role in getting Marvel to its current position? That doesn't seem particularly fair to me.
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Old June 11 2012, 09:15 PM   #216
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Re: what's next for Marvel (movies)?

I'm entitled to my opinion. I acknowledge that Avi was responsible for helping to form Marvel Studios and help guide it to where it is now, along with the other successful films he has been a producer on, but I don't think it's unfair to issue criticism when it's warranted either. The fact is we don't know the extent of his influence on those other films. We know about "Spider-Man 3" because it's been reported and documented over the years regarding what happened. We also know that he seems to really like Venom
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Old June 11 2012, 09:28 PM   #217
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Re: what's next for Marvel (movies)?

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
I'm entitled to my opinion.
Of course. Just as others are entitled to take issue with it.
I acknowledge that Avi was responsible for helping to form Marvel Studios and help guide it to where it is now, along with the other successful films he has been a producer on, but I don't think it's unfair to issue criticism when it's warranted either.
Criticism on particular issues is perfectly valid. I share some of them. It's just a blanket dismissal of him and his efforts that I disagree with.
The fact is we don't know the extent of his influence on those other films. We know about "Spider-Man 3" because it's been reported and documented over the years regarding what happened.
We don't know the exact influence of any number of execs and producers on the films they were involved in, but taking one widely reported instance where someone's influence was negative and elevating it to be emblematic of their influence across the board is problematic, just as it's problematic to pin all the blame on one person. Avi was hardly alone in pushing Venom on Raimi. Bear in mind that Avi wasn't the producer who ultimately called the shots on those films.
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Old June 11 2012, 10:24 PM   #218
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Re: what's next for Marvel (movies)?

Out Of My Vulcan Mind wrote: View Post
Avi Arad's track record certainly isn't spotless, but he was instrumental in turning Marvel around and launching Marvel as a successful movie brand. People should remember that and not dismiss him as if his influence was all negative.
Indeed. It's worth remembering that, before Avi took matters in hand, Marvel couldn't get a decent movie made if their lives depended on it. James Cameron's Spider-Man got tied up in litigation. Captain America went straight to video. And have we forgotten the Roger Corman FF, David Hasselhoff as Nick Fury, Howard the Duck and that godforsaken Generation X tv-movie?

Somebody had to get Marvel's movie house in order. From what I understand, Avi got real movies made at real studios, with a pretty good track record of success . . ..
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Old June 11 2012, 10:29 PM   #219
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Re: what's next for Marvel (movies)?

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
And have we forgotten the Roger Corman FF, David Hasselhoff as Nick Fury, Howard the Duck and that godforsaken Generation X tv-movie?
We're trying to, but people keep reminding us of them!
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Old June 11 2012, 11:06 PM   #220
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Re: what's next for Marvel (movies)?

Skywalker wrote: View Post
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And have we forgotten the Roger Corman FF, David Hasselhoff as Nick Fury, Howard the Duck and that godforsaken Generation X tv-movie?
We're trying to, but people keep reminding us of them!
For what it's worth, I actually like the Corman FF better than the big-budget train-wrecks that we got. And the Hoff's Nick Fury movie wasn't that bad. Wasn't that good either, but there you are.
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Old June 12 2012, 01:34 AM   #221
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Re: what's next for Marvel (movies)?

No denying Avi had a big role in the success of Marvel Films. None.
But just like Brannon and Braga, despite all the good you did...it's time to move on.
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Old June 12 2012, 03:19 AM   #222
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Re: what's next for Marvel (movies)?

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
[...] And have we forgotten the Roger Corman FF [...]
I agree very much with what Out of My Vulcan Mind has been saying, but this example doesn't exactly fit with your others since it was only produced to ensure the studio kept the rights to FF, rather than ever intending the movie to be released.

The other examples, of course, were perfect, and your overall point was spot-on.
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Old June 12 2012, 03:42 AM   #223
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Re: what's next for Marvel (movies)?

PsychoPere wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
[...] And have we forgotten the Roger Corman FF [...]
I agree very much with what Out of My Vulcan Mind has been saying, but this example doesn't exactly fit with your others since it was only produced to ensure the studio kept the rights to FF, rather than ever intending the movie to be released.
That the Corman FF was never intended to be released is an urban myth.

In a recent LA Magazine article titled "Fantastic Faux," Eichinger rejects the rumored statement that the film was never intended to be released.

"No, that's not true," comments Eichinger. "It was definitely not our intention to make a B movie, that's for sure, but when the movie was there, we wanted to release it."

He then continues, "...Avi (Arad) calls me up and says, 'Listen, I think what you did was great. It shows your enthusiasm for the movie and the property. I understand that you have invested so-and-so much and Roger has invested so-and-so much. Let's do a deal.'

Because he really didn't like the idea that a small movie was coming out and maybe ruining the franchise. So he says to me that he wants to give me back the money that we spent on the movie and that we should not release it."

Arad, the head honcho at Marvel and the man responsible for many of their recent box-office hits acknowledged the sale at a 2003 press junket for the first Spider-Man film. He stated he purchased the film for a few million dollars and ordered all prints destroyed.
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Old June 12 2012, 03:47 AM   #224
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Re: what's next for Marvel (movies)?

Ah, thanks for the correction. In that case, disregard my previous post!
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Old June 20 2012, 08:22 PM   #225
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Re: what's next for Marvel (movies)?

Turtletrekker wrote: View Post
Skywalker wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
And have we forgotten the Roger Corman FF, David Hasselhoff as Nick Fury, Howard the Duck and that godforsaken Generation X tv-movie?
We're trying to, but people keep reminding us of them!
For what it's worth, I actually like the Corman FF better than the big-budget train-wrecks that we got. And the Hoff's Nick Fury movie wasn't that bad.
I have to agree here.
Of course, I also like the 1990 Captain America.
I even liked what they did with daredevil in that Hulk tv movie. Mostly. Thor... not so much.
If it helps maintain any cred at all, I hated the short-lived Spiderman tv series.
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