RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,382
Posts: 5,357,281
Members: 24,628
Currently online: 485
Newest member: suryaprabu02

TrekToday headlines

The Gene Roddenberry Project Kickstarter
By: T'Bonz on Jul 30

Moore: No Deep Space Nine Regrets
By: T'Bonz on Jul 30

Pegg Star Wars Rumor
By: T'Bonz on Jul 30

Borg Cube Fridge
By: T'Bonz on Jul 29

Free Enterprise Kickstarter
By: T'Bonz on Jul 29

Siddig To Join Game Of Thrones
By: T'Bonz on Jul 29

Sci-Fried To Release New Album
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Star Trek/Planet of the Apes Crossover
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Star Trek into Darkness Soundtrack
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Horse 1, Shatner 0
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy

Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 8 2012, 10:32 PM   #76
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Batman...

Sci wrote: View Post
...Bruce has made a difference. Batman and his allies have saved hundreds, if not thousands, of lives in Gotham. They literally brought Gotham City back from the dead during the No Man's Land crisis.

Yeah, sure, his mission to prevent any murders from ever happening again in Gotham is quixotic -- but so is the mission of any police department, to try to fight crime. You don't give up on something like that because it's impossible to completely solve; you keep doing it and make it your life's work.
That's true -- but Bruce could make a lot more difference fighting crime just by paying to put up streetlights and security cameras, funding an expansion of the police force, etc. Though I guess you could argue that as long as Gotham's government was corrupt, he couldn't be sure the money would be spent appropriately. And we do often hear about the Wayne Foundation's charity efforts. But they don't seem to make much of an impact on the state of Gotham, since the city needs to stay dark and dangerous so Batman can continue to have adventures every month.


JaxsBrokenHeart wrote: View Post
I do find it amusing that if you view Burton and Schumacher's films as in continuity, its hilariously the most optimistic view of the character's work as it suggests his war on crime is working. The city really does seem much better from where it is is in Batman to B&R.
Well, Gotham in The Dark Knight has definitely improved since Batman Begins, with more law and order, more hope among the public, etc. Once Batman and Harvey brought down the gangs, the city was in the best state it had been in since Bruce's boyhood -- until the Joker came in and waged his anarchic campaign to tear down all the stability Batman and Harvey had created.

But yeah, I guess I kind of see your point. Certainly between Returns and Forever there must've been one hell of an architecture boom, with an emphasis on gigantic Art Deco statues and neon lighting.

Although if they are in continuity, that does leave the question of how Harvey Dent turned from a suave African-American into a craggy-faced Caucasian.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 8 2012, 11:49 PM   #77
Sci
Admiral
 
Sci's Avatar
 
Location: "We hold these truths to be self-evident..."
Re: Batman...

Christopher wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post
...Bruce has made a difference. Batman and his allies have saved hundreds, if not thousands, of lives in Gotham. They literally brought Gotham City back from the dead during the No Man's Land crisis.

Yeah, sure, his mission to prevent any murders from ever happening again in Gotham is quixotic -- but so is the mission of any police department, to try to fight crime. You don't give up on something like that because it's impossible to completely solve; you keep doing it and make it your life's work.
That's true -- but Bruce could make a lot more difference fighting crime just by paying to put up streetlights and security cameras, funding an expansion of the police force, etc. Though I guess you could argue that as long as Gotham's government was corrupt, he couldn't be sure the money would be spent appropriately. And we do often hear about the Wayne Foundation's charity efforts. But they don't seem to make much of an impact on the state of Gotham, since the city needs to stay dark and dangerous so Batman can continue to have adventures every month.
Indeed, this, like many things, is a function of the fact that the Batman story -- like those of all comics -- is trapped in the Eternal Middle, with no true beginning or end.

Personally, I interpret things such that his campaign has improved Gotham, and noticeably so -- but that it's also led to the rise of more unstable elements like the Joker, Two-Face, etc.

JaxsBrokenHeart wrote: View Post
I do find it amusing that if you view Burton and Schumacher's films as in continuity, its hilariously the most optimistic view of the character's work as it suggests his war on crime is working. The city really does seem much better from where it is is in Batman to B&R.
Well, Gotham in The Dark Knight has definitely improved since Batman Begins, with more law and order, more hope among the public, etc. Once Batman and Harvey brought down the gangs, the city was in the best state it had been in since Bruce's boyhood -- until the Joker came in and waged his anarchic campaign to tear down all the stability Batman and Harvey had created.
Exactly.

Although if they are in continuity, that does leave the question of how Harvey Dent turned from a suave African-American into a craggy-faced Caucasian.
"My gosh, that was really powerful acid they threw at his face, wasn't it?"
__________________
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic Socialism, as I understand it." - George Orwell, 1946
Sci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9 2012, 12:02 AM   #78
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Batman...

Sci wrote: View Post
Personally, I interpret things such that his campaign has improved Gotham, and noticeably so -- but that it's also led to the rise of more unstable elements like the Joker, Two-Face, etc.
Which is pretty much the premise of The Dark Knight. Batman defeats regular crime, but that creates a void that the supercriminal rises to fill. They even set this up at the end of Batman Begins when they spoke of escalation.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9 2012, 12:47 AM   #79
Trekker4747
Fleet Admiral
 
Trekker4747's Avatar
 
Location: Kansas City
Re: Batman...

Well, since we're treading to the topic....

LINK

__________________
Just because it's futuristic doesn't mean it's practical.
Trekker4747 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9 2012, 07:29 PM   #80
Captaindemotion
Vice Admiral
 
Captaindemotion's Avatar
 
Location: Ireland
Re: Batman...

Christopher wrote: View Post
billcosby wrote: View Post
Is it generally a given that Burton's two films and Shoe-mockers (doesn't deserve the effort to spell it right) are sort of in the same continuity?
In theory, yes, they were meant to be. They share Michael Gough's Alfred and Pat Hingle's Commissioner Gordon. And Forever had an indirect reference to Catwoman in dialogue. Burton was originally going to direct the third film, and he did produce it. But when Schumacher took over, he did a wholesale revamp on the series, so it has a different feel and sensibility despite being nominally in continuity.
At the time, ...Forever was viewed as the third Batman film, the sequel to Batman and Batman Returns. But I think that had it been made today, then it would have been described as a reboot - different actor, different director, different tone, different look for Gotham, different soundtrack, different Batmobile, different costume, etc.
__________________
Hodor!!!!!!!
Captaindemotion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9 2012, 08:00 PM   #81
Greg Cox
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Oxford, PA
Re: Batman...

Sci wrote: View Post
Although if they are in continuity, that does leave the question of how Harvey Dent turned from a suave African-American into a craggy-faced Caucasian.
"My gosh, that was really powerful acid they threw at his face, wasn't it?"
Complete with a bleaching agent . . . .
__________________
www.gregcox-author.com
Greg Cox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9 2012, 08:11 PM   #82
Admiral James Kirk
Writer
 
Admiral James Kirk's Avatar
 
Location: Tucson, AZ
Re: Batman...

The tragedy isn't the scars on Harvey Dent's face. The tragedy is that Harvey Dent went from looking like Billy Dee Williams to looking like Tommy Lee Jones. Poor bastard.
Admiral James Kirk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9 2012, 08:21 PM   #83
Dick Whitman
Fleet Captain
 
Location: Behind the mask of Donald Draper
Re: Batman...

Well if you want a somewhat rational explanation Harvey Dent could have been suffering from Vitiligo. As he started to slowly lose his skin pigmentation he covered small light spots with dark makeup to match his natural complexion. But as it progressed the majority of his face was without his natural color so he started to cover the dark spots. So he did not need his whole face covered with makeup. This is how people with the condition sometimes deal with it.

Imagine the added effect of having acid thrown onto half of your face if you already had Vitiligo. He had lost most of his natural complexion and now he had permanent scars too. Talk about the loss of identity and psychological damage!

I know none of this is in the movies, buts its an interesting way of tying two actors playing the same role in the same continuity together.
Dick Whitman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9 2012, 08:48 PM   #84
Silvercrest
Rear Admiral
 
Location: Lost in Moria (Arlington, WA, USA)
Re: Batman...

Christopher wrote: View Post
But yeah, I guess I kind of see your point. Certainly between Returns and Forever there must've been one hell of an architecture boom, with an emphasis on gigantic Art Deco statues and neon lighting.
After the theatrics of Batman, the Joker, the Penguin, and Catwoman parading through the city, it inspired the city go arty in a big way. They started by installing neon everywhere.

Although if they are in continuity, that does leave the question of how Harvey Dent turned from a suave African-American into a craggy-faced Caucasian
He didn't. The art lights just make him look that way.
Silvercrest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9 2012, 09:32 PM   #85
Aragorn
Admiral
 
Aragorn's Avatar
 
Re: Batman...

Christopher wrote: View Post
Although if they are in continuity, that does leave the question of how Harvey Dent turned from a suave African-American into a craggy-faced Caucasian.
Henry Harvey Dent was in Batman.

Harvey Bartholomew Dent was in Batman Forever.
Aragorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9 2012, 09:52 PM   #86
Admiral James Kirk
Writer
 
Admiral James Kirk's Avatar
 
Location: Tucson, AZ
Re: Batman...

Admiral James Kirk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9 2012, 10:28 PM   #87
DWF
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Re: Batman...

I just finished rewatching the '89 movie and I think it still holds up. I didn't like it al that much when it first came out, but I've come to think that Tim Burton was trying for a more operatic approach, with the big sets and dystopian setting of Gotham and I think it works better if you think it it in those terms.
__________________
The greatest science fiction series of all time is
Doctor Who! And I'll take you all on, one-by-one
or all in a bunch to back it up!"
--- Harlan Ellison, from his introduction
to the PINNACLE series of Doctor Who books
DWF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9 2012, 10:29 PM   #88
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Batman...

Captaindemotion wrote: View Post
At the time, ...Forever was viewed as the third Batman film, the sequel to Batman and Batman Returns. But I think that had it been made today, then it would have been described as a reboot - different actor, different director, different tone, different look for Gotham, different soundtrack, different Batmobile, different costume, etc.
Except it carried forward the same Alfred and Commissioner Gordon. As far as I know, the only series reboot that's brought back an actor from the former incarnation in the same role is the James Bond reboot (with Dame Judi Dench). Unless you believe the security guard Lou Ferrigno played in The Incredible Hulk is the same one he played in Hulk.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 10 2012, 03:35 AM   #89
Dick Whitman
Fleet Captain
 
Location: Behind the mask of Donald Draper
Re: Batman...

Agreed. The Burton and Schumacher films are in the same continuity the same way Dr. No, On Her Majesty's Secret Service, Live and Let Die, The Living Daylights, and Goldeneye are.
Dick Whitman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 10 2012, 04:05 AM   #90
Marc
Fleet Admiral
 
Location: An Aussie in Canukistan
Send a message via ICQ to Marc
Re: Batman...

Admiral James Kirk wrote: View Post
The tragedy isn't the scars on Harvey Dent's face. The tragedy is that Harvey Dent went from looking like Billy Dee Williams to looking like Tommy Lee Jones. Poor bastard.
Read once that Billy Dee Williams took the roll of Dent in Batman because down the track he'd get to do the transition to Two-Face?
__________________
Gentlemen you can't fight in here - this is the war room.

Pres. Merkin P. Muffly
Marc is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
batman, batman returns

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:43 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.