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Old June 8 2012, 05:41 PM   #136
Out Of My Vulcan Mind
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

Regarding Snyder's box office track record, he's mostly directed movies with a higher than normal degree of risk (although almost all movies, even ones that look like no-brainers, carry significant risk).

His first movie, Dawn of the Dead, had by far the lowest risk factor. It had a low budget and there's a solid, consistent market for horror films, especially brand name horror films. And Dawn of the Dead was indeed a big success relative to its budget.

His movies after that were a lot riskier: an R-rated green screen historical action movie, a very dark, very violent and very long R-rated superhero epic with no big stars, a CGI animated movie for a studio that, despite its long and storied success in animated television series and film shorts, has struggled to sell animated feature films, and an esoteric action movie with a cast centred on young, mostly lesser-known, actresses.

Directing a Superman movie is a much safer bet for Snyder than any of his other post-Dawn of the Dead movies. After all, if a Superman movie designed as an introspective drama that split moviegoers and had many complaining about a lack of action could nonetheless make just shy of $400 million worldwide then it stands to reason that a Superman film with Zack Snyder's penchant for massive action scenes has a good chance to make a whole lot more.
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Old June 8 2012, 06:08 PM   #137
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

davejames wrote: View Post
Dream wrote: View Post
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Grant Morrison's JLA was dark and mature, plus fun and humorous at times too. Why do people freak out now when they read those words? Plus Millar talks a lot too.
Because I want the JL movie to be fun instead of a depression fest like TDK.
I doubt it would ever be THAT dark and serious. More likely, it'll just be a bit more grounded in the real world like the new Spidey-Man appears to be.
How exactly were the Raimi films not grounded in the real world?
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Old June 8 2012, 07:21 PM   #138
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

Captain Craig wrote: View Post
davejames wrote: View Post
I doubt it would ever be THAT dark and serious. More likely, it'll just be a bit more grounded in the real world like the new Spidey-Man appears to be.
How exactly were the Raimi films not grounded in the real world?
Because they took place in a super bright and happy and colorful version of NY, with lots of corny dialogue straight out of the 1960s comic books. With walking cartoon characters like J Jonah Jameson. And villains who rode around on gliders in cheesy green armor, or had long tentacles on their back.

I love the heck out of the first two movies, but they weren't exactly the grittiest or most realistic movies ever.
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Old June 8 2012, 07:41 PM   #139
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

davejames wrote: View Post
I love the heck out of the first two movies, but they weren't exactly the grittiest or most realistic movies ever.
Not being gritty I'll grant you, but how is the whole concept of a guy who clings to walls realistic in the slightest? It's a fantasy, just like the new one.
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Old June 8 2012, 07:52 PM   #140
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

davejames wrote: View Post
Captain Craig wrote: View Post
davejames wrote: View Post
I doubt it would ever be THAT dark and serious. More likely, it'll just be a bit more grounded in the real world like the new Spidey-Man appears to be.
How exactly were the Raimi films not grounded in the real world?
Because they took place in a super bright and happy and colorful version of NY, with lots of corny dialogue straight out of the 1960s comic books. With walking cartoon characters like J Jonah Jameson. And villains who rode around on gliders in cheesy green armor, or had long tentacles on their back.

I love the heck out of the first two movies, but they weren't exactly the grittiest or most realistic movies ever.
This doesn't compute for me. People seem to be having selective memory about the 'net for the Raimi films.
Uncle Ben was carjacked and killed.
Mary Jane was going to be mugged...at the least, in the rain at night.
Doc Ock wrecks the O.R. and kills the attendants working on him. He then makes a secret lab in a run down warehouse pier shown to us at night, the grity night.
Flint Marko is a robber on the run from the law
Not to mention broad daylight robberies in the first film montage.
How much more real can you get? I swear in 6 months the revolutionary rewriters about the 'net will be pushing the Raimi movies as flat out Camp Spoofs.
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Old June 8 2012, 08:18 PM   #141
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

I certainly don't believe anything Cosmic Movie News is "reporting". Again, they're like Comic Book Movies.
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Old June 8 2012, 08:38 PM   #142
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

Professor Zoom wrote: View Post
Not being gritty I'll grant you, but how is the whole concept of a guy who clings to walls realistic in the slightest? It's a fantasy, just like the new one.
That's a specious argument. Countless writers have treated fantastic subjects in a realistic style, by making the elements around the fantastic premise realistic. That's why there's a whole genre named "magic realism." Realistic fantasy or SF is about portraying a world that's like the real world except for one or two fanciful elements, and exploring the ramifications of those fanciful elements in a realistic way. In particular it means treating the characters realistically, having them behave like actual human beings would if faced with a given situation, however impossible that situation may be. For instance, someone getting superpowers and initially deciding to use them to make money is more realistic than someone getting superpowers and instantly going "We've gotta use that power to help mankind, right?" (even though Stan Lee wrote both of those instances within nine months of each other).
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Old June 8 2012, 08:40 PM   #143
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

Christopher wrote: View Post
Professor Zoom wrote: View Post
Not being gritty I'll grant you, but how is the whole concept of a guy who clings to walls realistic in the slightest? It's a fantasy, just like the new one.
That's a specious argument.
Agreed. A specious argument FOR a specious argument.


Countless writers have treated fantastic subjects in a realistic style, by making the elements around the fantastic premise realistic. That's why there's a whole genre named "magic realism." Realistic fantasy or SF is about portraying a world that's like the real world except for one or two fanciful elements, and exploring the ramifications of those fanciful elements in a realistic way. In particular it means treating the characters realistically, having them behave like actual human beings would if faced with a given situation, however impossible that situation may be. For instance, someone getting superpowers and initially deciding to use them to make money is more realistic than someone getting superpowers and instantly going "We've gotta use that power to help mankind, right?" (even though Stan Lee wrote both of those instances within nine months of each other).
Agreed. That's why I don't know how one could say Raimi's Spiderman wasn't "realistic." It very clearly is.
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Old June 8 2012, 08:49 PM   #144
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

Well, the Raimi films are realistic in a Marvel sort of way -- they're set in a recognizable version of New York City, but a heightened one, combining naturalistic texture with broad fantasy and melodrama. For instance, nobody would say that the movies' J. Jonah Jameson is a particularly realistic character. He's a larger-than-life, comic figure, the way Stan Lee originally wrote him. And the digital version of Manhattan they created is based on the real one, looks and feels like the real one, but is exaggerated, with more tall buildings for Spidey to swing from and other additions like the elevated tracks in the Spidey/Ock subway fight (which was actually shot in Chicago). So there are plenty of degrees of realism. The Raimi Spider-Man films are more realistic than Burton's or Schumacher's Batman films, but less realistic than Nolan's Batman films or, say, Chronicle.
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Old June 8 2012, 09:26 PM   #145
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

Christopher wrote: View Post
other additions like the elevated tracks in the Spidey/Ock subway fight (which was actually shot in Chicago).
Actually, NYC has had an "El" in the past, and parts of it still remain, albeit unused.

http://www.wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2868

In Marvel NYC, they simply never stopped using it.
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Old June 8 2012, 09:29 PM   #146
davejames
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

Captain Craig wrote: View Post
This doesn't compute for me. People seem to be having selective memory about the 'net for the Raimi films.
Uncle Ben was carjacked and killed.
Mary Jane was going to be mugged...at the least, in the rain at night.
Doc Ock wrecks the O.R. and kills the attendants working on him. He then makes a secret lab in a run down warehouse pier shown to us at night, the grity night.
Flint Marko is a robber on the run from the law
Not to mention broad daylight robberies in the first film montage.
How much more real can you get? I swear in 6 months the revolutionary rewriters about the 'net will be pushing the Raimi movies as flat out Camp Spoofs.
People got mugged and killed in Burton's Batman movies too, but that would hardly be enough to qualify them as "realistic."

I'm not saying Raimi's Spider-Man was an all-out campfest; just that it was fairly comic booky (in the way Donner's Superman was, or the Avengers).
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Old June 8 2012, 09:31 PM   #147
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

I wouldn't have minded a directors cut of that secne where Toby's arms get ripped off by trying to stop a train like that, or possibly segmented down his central axis.

That there was a job for Superman.

Spider-man should lant his fucking place in the natural order of super heroics.
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Old June 8 2012, 10:06 PM   #148
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

Ian Keldon wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
other additions like the elevated tracks in the Spidey/Ock subway fight (which was actually shot in Chicago).
Actually, NYC has had an "El" in the past, and parts of it still remain, albeit unused.
Well, yes, and there are elevated tracks still in use in Queens (which makes me wonder why the movie scene wasn't just set there, considering that Peter Parker lives in Queens). But the point is that the movie used the real New York as a starting point and exaggerated/added to it. It's heightened realism rather than strict realism.
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Old June 8 2012, 10:24 PM   #149
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

I think Rami did a good job of balancing the comic book elements of the character and his world with realistic elements.
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Old June 8 2012, 11:14 PM   #150
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Re: They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

You mean after some god awful casting decisions?
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