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Old June 6 2012, 03:35 AM   #31
Warped9
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Re: Batman...

The best Batman comics had an air of realism to them, a measure of credibility, as far as can be possible when delving into the superhero genre. The Burton and Schumacher films rejected that. There is an underlying feeling of them sneering under their breath saying, "Look how silly all this is." In their own way they're mocking the whole exercise. Did they do that intentionally? Burton, maybe not, Schumacher, most likely.

But the end result is just something of a mockery of a damn good character. We all know that Batman isn't real, but part of the fun is imagining he could be real. Nolan gets that. The producers and directors and writers of the better superhero films get that.

Burton and Schumacher either didn't get it or just rejected it.

I like Batman to be given a sense of realism. I don't like him being mocked.
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Old June 6 2012, 03:38 AM   #32
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Re: Batman...

Warped9 wrote: View Post
We all know that Batman isn't real, but part of the fun is imagining he could be real.
Exactly. What if Batman or any other superhero were real? That's the fun you get with a more naturalistic approach.
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Old June 6 2012, 03:43 AM   #33
Warped9
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Re: Batman...

Agent Richard07 wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
We all know that Batman isn't real, but part of the fun is imagining he could be real.
Exactly. What if Batman or any other superhero were real? That's the fun you get with a more naturalistic approach.
In the '90s Batman TAS was consistently far better than what was being done live-action. That creative group got it. It was animation and yet they respected the subject matter, and fans in general, better than Burton and Schumacher.

And Batman in animation is still good and more generally consistent with what Nolan is doing.
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Old June 6 2012, 03:48 AM   #34
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Re: Batman...

Warped9 wrote: View Post
I like Batman to be given a sense of realism. I don't like him being mocked.
You must loathe the Adam West TV show.
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Old June 6 2012, 04:01 AM   #35
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Re: Batman...

^ Personally, I love the Adam West series, but it's also good to have something that takes itself more seriously.
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Old June 6 2012, 04:25 AM   #36
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Re: Batman...

The Adam West show is terrific, an extremely authentic adaptation of the way the character was handled in the comics at the time. People see it as mocking the comics, but the comics from that period actually didn't take themselves particularly seriously and were full of ridiculous and comedic situations that bordered on self-parody. If anything, the show was more sedate than the comics. At least Adam West's Batman never had Superman brainwash him into having blackouts and adopting an alternate hero persona to compete with himself to be Superman's new partner, just to pose Batman with an insoluble mystery as an anniversary present.

And people sometimes forget that the Adam West series introduced Barbara Gordon/Batgirl, one of the most important and beloved figures in the Batman family, and it was the show that defined the basic characterization she had in the comics -- her intelligence, her fearlessness and skill rivalling Batman's, her sense of joy in crimefighting. The third season was actually pretty badly done compared to the first two, but Batgirl was a fantastic addition to the mythos.
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Old June 6 2012, 04:40 AM   #37
sonak
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Re: Batman...

the show was awful. The humor was lame, it was extremely formulaic and repetitive, the "acting" was ridiculous.

Deliberate schlock is still schlock in the end. The comics were also awful during that period.
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Old June 6 2012, 06:48 AM   #38
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Re: Batman...

Batman the series seen through modern eyes misses why it was so fresh when it appeared, It was the Airplane! of its time: taking something essentially ludicrous that was played straight and playing it SO straight that it became silly. It was really a pop-art film version of the late 50s Batman comics, with the giant death traps, etc.
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Old June 6 2012, 07:00 AM   #39
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Re: Batman...

Anything I say about Batman: Returns isn't going to change anyones mind. Truth be told, what most people say are right, it does play more like a Burton film than a proper Batman film. Most of the character's are chaged around a lot, and it has this underlying theme of nastiness running throughout it.

But you know what? I love the hell out of it. It just all works for me. I love the look of Gotham, I love how it looks like exactly what it is, sets on a soundstage. There's something very theatrical about the whole thing, and fo rme, it works.
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Old June 6 2012, 07:16 AM   #40
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Re: Batman...

The best things to come out of the Burton Batmans was the Gotham City architecture and Catwoman's costume.
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Old June 6 2012, 07:23 AM   #41
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Re: Batman...

sojourner wrote: View Post
The best things to come out of the Burton Batmans was the Gotham City architecture and Catwoman's costume.
We shall soon know for sure if Michelle Pfeiffer as Catwoman will be added to that list.

I've been reading a lot of optimistic things about Anne Hathaway but it remains to be seen. Pfeiffer, I think was one of the few actors in those films who seems like they were having fun with their character. I'm not really sure even Keaton had fun playing Bruce Wayne or Batman.
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Old June 6 2012, 07:29 AM   #42
Zaku
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Re: Batman...

Agent Richard07 wrote: View Post
Exactly. What if Batman or any other superhero were real?
They would be dead. Or in prison
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Old June 6 2012, 08:14 AM   #43
Turtletrekker
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Re: Batman...

Zaku wrote: View Post
Agent Richard07 wrote: View Post
Exactly. What if Batman or any other superhero were real?
They would be dead. Or in prison
Just ask Seattle's Phoenix Jones. He has been arrested and had his nose broken, but he and his cohorts keep patroling the night.
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Old June 6 2012, 11:43 AM   #44
Ugly Sweater
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Re: Batman...

Christopher wrote: View Post
The Adam West show is terrific, an extremely authentic adaptation of the way the character was handled in the comics at the time. People see it as mocking the comics, but the comics from that period actually didn't take themselves particularly seriously and were full of ridiculous and comedic situations that bordered on self-parody. If anything, the show was more sedate than the comics. At least Adam West's Batman never had Superman brainwash him into having blackouts and adopting an alternate hero persona to compete with himself to be Superman's new partner, just to pose Batman with an insoluble mystery as an anniversary present.
God, I have that issue too.

And people sometimes forget that the Adam West series introduced Barbara Gordon/Batgirl, one of the most important and beloved figures in the Batman family, and it was the show that defined the basic characterization she had in the comics -- her intelligence, her fearlessness and skill rivalling Batman's, her sense of joy in crimefighting. The third season was actually pretty badly done compared to the first two, but Batgirl was a fantastic addition to the mythos.
I'd love to have the Adam West series on DVD and short of buying a bootleg of it a con I'll likely never have it.
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Old June 6 2012, 01:23 PM   #45
Christopher
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Re: Batman...

Maurice wrote: View Post
Batman the series seen through modern eyes misses why it was so fresh when it appeared, It was the Airplane! of its time: taking something essentially ludicrous that was played straight and playing it SO straight that it became silly. It was really a pop-art film version of the late 50s Batman comics, with the giant death traps, etc.
Except that, as I said, the Batman and other DC comics of the day weren't played straight. They were full of deliberately goofy, zany, ridiculous situations and sitcom-like character plots. There's no way the writers who came up with the likes of the Rainbow Batman weren't trying to tell funny stories. The reason the producers of the show made it a comedy is because that's what the comics already were.

Keep in mind that several storylines on the TV series were direct adaptations of comic-book storylines. For instance, the first Joker appearance on the show was a fairly faithful adaptation of 1952's "The Joker's Utility Belt," with material added to flesh out the first half-hour, but the basic story beats much the same. There was nothing particularly serious about the comics story that the episode twisted to be funny. They were both pretty similar in tone and approach. And the comics story definitely ended on a punch line, with the Joker sick to death of belts but being sentenced to do hard labor at a belt factory.


billcosby wrote: View Post
I've been reading a lot of optimistic things about Anne Hathaway but it remains to be seen.
From what I've seen in trailers, Hathaway's Catwoman has a very Newmaresque quality, which I think is great.
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