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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate Rise Like Lions.
Outstanding 52 61.90%
Above Average 28 33.33%
Average 2 2.38%
Below Average 1 1.19%
Poor 1 1.19%
Voters: 84. You may not vote on this poll

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Old March 31 2012, 04:55 PM   #181
Admiral_Young
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Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

@Sci I doubt that Starfleet was a generic term used for the fleet, and even if it was, there are still certain overtones that come with it in the Mirror Universe for those who remember the tranny of the Empire, not to mention the very existence of Memory Omega seems to be about preventing the mistakes of the past and moving into a new future. The Commonwealth being a new space power would not want to "rock the boat" sort to speak or give impressions they were revisiting that past in any way. That would not be beneficial to their forward thinking process IMO.
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Old March 31 2012, 06:28 PM   #182
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Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
@Sci I doubt that Starfleet was a generic term used for the fleet, and even if it was, there are still certain overtones that come with it in the Mirror Universe for those who remember the tranny of the Empire, not to mention the very existence of Memory Omega seems to be about preventing the mistakes of the past and moving into a new future. The Commonwealth being a new space power would not want to "rock the boat" sort to speak or give impressions they were revisiting that past in any way. That would not be beneficial to their forward thinking process IMO.
I think that everything you suggested about what the Commonwealth would do is entirely plausible. I just also think the possibility that the word "Starfleet" is seen as a generic term rather than a specific term, like "Air Force" or "Navy" or "Luftwaffe," is also possible.

(After all, there was a lot of resentment of the Kingdom of Great Britain and its armed forces when the Thirteen Colonies declared independence -- yet no one suggested we should call it the United States Maritime Forces just to avoid using the same word in its name as the Royal Navy.)
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Old March 31 2012, 06:37 PM   #183
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Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

I think "Starfleet" is a pretty darn generic name for a fleet of starships. And according to the OED, it's been used in other works of fiction besides Star Trek, and while ST popularized the term, there's at least one documented use of "star fleet" preceding ST, from a 1939 story by Lester Del Rey.

Besides, at the time the Commonwealth comes into being, the Terran Empire's been extinct for over 85 years. I think more people would remember the tyranny of the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance by that point.
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Old March 31 2012, 06:47 PM   #184
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Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

Christopher wrote: View Post
I think "Starfleet" is a pretty darn generic name for a fleet of starships. And according to the OED, it's been used in other works of fiction besides Star Trek, and while ST popularized the term, there's at least one documented use of "star fleet" preceding ST, from a 1939 story by Lester Del Rey.
To be fair, "Starfleet" is used as a specific proper noun, too. Very rarely do characters say "the Starfleet" the way modern people will say "the Navy" or "the Air Force." So I can understand where Admiral_Young is coming from on that, too -- I just disagree, precisely because the word itself sounds so generic.

Besides, at the time the Commonwealth comes into being, the Terran Empire's been extinct for over 85 years. I think more people would remember the tyranny of the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance by that point.
Well, I think it's safe to say that people would probably remember both. The Third Reich's been gone for almost as long in real life as the Terran Empire had been when Rise Like Lions ends, but it's not like the memory of Nazi Germany is in any danger of being supplanted by the memory of East Germany just because it's the more recent tyranny.
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Old March 31 2012, 07:37 PM   #185
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Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

I am arguing using the thinking that Starfleet isn't just a generic space naval term, but the name of an organization, I guess we both disagree...I'll concede though that it could be thought of in a more wide spread sense. I have just always looked at the usage of it as the generally accepted "title" of the Federation and Empire's space fleet. We could call the Commonwealth Fleet, the Omega Fleet That's pretty generic though as well I guess.
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Old March 31 2012, 09:08 PM   #186
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Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

The way I look at it is: 'Star fleet', as two words, is indeed a generic term that could apply to any space fleet. 'Starfleet', as ONE word, is a proper noun which applies to the fleet operated by the Federation (or the Terran Empire).

To put it another way: The Galactic Commonwealth maintains a star fleet, but not a Starfleet.

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
those who remember the tranny of the Empire
Admiral Frank N. Furter?
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Old June 2 2012, 10:55 PM   #187
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Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

I was just watching "Through the Looking Glass" in DS9, season 3 and noticed that Sisko called mirror Jadzia "Dax". No one objected or looked confused.
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Old June 3 2012, 12:23 AM   #188
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Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

^ The author posted something about that somewhere in this thread I think. It was something like MU Trill taking the names of deceased symbionts (only Memory Omega knew Dax was still alive) to honor their memory.
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Old June 3 2012, 12:27 AM   #189
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Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

DS9forever wrote: View Post
^ The author posted something about that somewhere in this thread I think. It was something like MU Trill taking the names of deceased symbionts (only Memory Omega knew Dax was still alive) to honor their memory.
http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?...1&postcount=78
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Old June 3 2012, 12:28 AM   #190
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Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

Actually, Jadzia did frown in puzzlement when Sisko called her "Dax" in "Through the Looking Glass." The intent, of course, was that she was surprised that Sisko was less violent than the man she'd known, but it could also be read as "What did he just call me?"

Jennifer later refers to her as Dax while speaking with Sisko, but maybe she picked that up from him.
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Old June 3 2012, 01:10 AM   #191
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Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

Christopher wrote: View Post
Actually, Jadzia did frown in puzzlement when Sisko called her "Dax" in "Through the Looking Glass." The intent, of course, was that she was surprised that Sisko was less violent than the man she'd known, but it could also be read as "What did he just call me?"

Jennifer later refers to her as Dax while speaking with Sisko, but maybe she picked that up from him.
These were my assumptions, as well.
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Old June 3 2012, 02:38 AM   #192
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Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

I got this as one of my Mother's Day gifts. Enjoyed it thoroughly.
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Old June 18 2012, 02:19 AM   #193
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Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

I just finished this a couple minutes ago, and all I can say is wow. I absolutely loved every moment of it. I've been a big fan of the Mirror Universe since I first saw Crossover, and what Trek Lit has done with it has been awesome. I really liked the way it tied together all of the various threads set up by the earlier stories into one coherent conclusion. Absolutely amazing.
My Rating: 10/10. Poll vote: Outstanding.
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Old June 18 2012, 04:18 AM   #194
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Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

Thanks! Very kind of you to say. Glad you dug it.
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Old June 18 2012, 05:56 AM   #195
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Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
The way I look at it is: 'Star fleet', as two words, is indeed a generic term that could apply to any space fleet. 'Starfleet', as ONE word, is a proper noun which applies to the fleet operated by the Federation (or the Terran Empire).

To put it another way: The Galactic Commonwealth maintains a star fleet, but not a Starfleet.

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
those who remember the tranny of the Empire
Admiral Frank N. Furter?
Hence, the game "Star Fleet Battles" is NOT called "Starfleet Battles", since even though it is based in the TrekU, it is more than about the forces deployed by the United Federation of Planets.
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