DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

[Hound of UIster]

Admiral_Young wrote:

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^ It's already known that Batman Inc Volume One takes place Pre-52'Verse, but why Alan brought it up in the article is because it is supposed to take place in the New 52 but because of this stupid new timeline we don't really when exactly when. Like I said issue one of Volume two references Damian's incidents with Spooky and Nobody...but really as Alan pointed out this should not have taken place before "Batgirl".

As Tim Drake said...Batman needs a Robin. He's crucial as the human anchor. Without him Bruce goes off the deep end.

I do agree there are too many Bat books right now. I'd subtract Dark Knight if I was Mike Marts. Possibly take away "Batman and Robin" and give Damian his own solo title

Batman and Robin is actually good. Better than Detective and TDK. Marts only has those two to keep Daniel and Finch on DC's payroll or else they'd go to Marvel or Image.

Trekker4747 wrote:

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I see no need to eliminate those. Why not have a JLA or Blue Beetle book that "takes place in the future" sort of how AC and Superman tie to one another?

Unless the writers have a personal connection ala Snyder or Lemire, DC is pretty bad at linking books together because writers and/or editors don't talk to each other. And if they do half the time they are sabotaging each other.

There is an interesting story about how a novelist who was doing a book at DC found that trying to get continuity and story details from the editors was like pulling teeth.

[Agent Richard07]

Nerys Myk wrote:

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There's more to good art and visual storytelling than detail.

Maybe, but I would have preferred a more vibrant approach.

[shivkala]

Hound of UIster wrote:

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Unless the writers have a personal connection ala Snyder or Lemire, DC is pretty bad at linking books together because writers and/or editors don't talk to each other. And if they do half the time they are sabotaging each other.

There is an interesting story about how a novelist who was doing a book at DC found that trying to get continuity and story details from the editors was like pulling teeth.

Agreed, part of what hurts Legion of Super-Heroes is the fact that it ties in with the current DCU. Things like Crisis, Superman's origin, Brainiac's origin, etc. all impact the 31st Century. Not to mention the times the Legion travels to the past (the 20th/21st century has seen visits by multiple Legions).

As far as setting the books in the future, the first problem is, "How far?" That would involve accepting that your characters will age, which DC is reluctant to admit. I honestly don't think we'd ever see the books sync up, those set in the "past" would never be allowed to catch up to when Teen Titans, Blue Beetle, etc. would take place.

The second problem is spoilers. Let's say DC did this and decided at some point Barry would die again. How do you hide the fact that Wally is Flash in the "future" when he's not in the "present"? There's also the problem of who Robin is currently. You can't leave that out of titles like Teen Titans without at some point addressing it in the Batman titles.

Those are just the tip of the iceberg as far as problems.

[Admiral_Young]

"Batman and Robin" is a good book...it has gotten better at least, I would make a sacrifice though if I was Batman group editor. The other decision I'd make is get rid of Tony Daniels on "Detective Comics". Not sure who I would replace him with though..maybe Kyle Higgins.

I disagree that being in the future hurts Legion. There have been multiple references over the years to present day story lines but it's not like what takes place in the present actually affects what is going on in the future. The timestream actually seems in constant flux. Besides which editorial just retcons or erases these events and crises as they see fit, as they've been doing since the relaunch anyway.

I feel like the biggest problem with the relaunch is that the people involved in creating it, really wanted it...but didn't really think things through, or really didn't care how readers (old and new) would react to the changes they were going to make. It's just a complete mess.

[shivkala]

If they take the approach of constant minor adjustments being made, then, yeah, Legion can work (there have been multiple attempts to do just this), but then, every few years, writers decide they're going to explain everything and the more they explain it, the worse it gets. It does get to be a headache when back in the late 90's, they had to explain why Superman met pre-Zero Hour Cos, Lightning Lad, and Saturn Girl, when some of the post-Zero Hour Legion had been stranded in the past and had met Superman for the first time. While it was an interesting and creative dodge (The Time Trapper was messing with time to teach the Legion a lesson they would need to defeat the Dark Circle, and therefor had brought back the pre-Zero Hour Legion temporarily, which just so happened to coincide with Superman bouncing into the 30th century at one point in his career), it could have been fixed with a smile/wink/and nod that the same scene had happened differently than we saw it, with the "current" Legionnaires taking the place of their previous incarnations.

I agree with your comments about creators. While I am happy with the output by Geoff Johns, Scott Snyder, and Jeff Lemire, (and, to a lesser extent, Grant Morrison on Action), I just can't get excited about titles written by Dan Jurgens (as I've gone into detail earlier in this thread about) or Rob Liefeld, to name two creators off the bat ("bat," not "Bat," but I guess you can add Tony Daniel to that list).

I've had differing opinions of Gail Simone (her Villains United/Secret Six runs are pure brilliance, but I was bored by her "Brightest Day" Birds of Prey and her earlier run on Action Comics), but I was excited about a year ago when DC announced Brian Clevinger on Firestorm. I haven't read Atomic Robo, I've seen scans on various websites, enough to tell it's well written and interesting (someday, when I'm finally done with collecting Sandman and Starman TPBs, I might start collecting Atomic Robo, but I digress). Hearing he was dropped and it would be Gail Simone and Ethan Van Sciver was a bit disappointing. Firestorm has been one of my favorite "B"-level characters (okay, maybe "C"-level) and I thought Stuart Moore did a great job recently, I wouldn't have been sad if they tapped him, again. Firestorm has been one of the titles I've had a hard time getting up enthusiasm for and it's the title closest to the chopping block for me (I've practically done that, since my comic shop doesn't seem to have the last two-three issues in stock and I haven't immediately jumped onto the internet to correct that).

I started buying Teen Titans for my son, and found some interesting parts, but Scott Lobdell has not really helped hook me. Howard Mackie isn't going to get me interested in that corner of the DCU, either.

[Admiral_Young]

Another list I agree with...for the most part. A New Who's Who would be awesome. Marvel still pumps out the handbook, I don't see why DC can't do the same and bust out Who's Who again. I believe there were plans to bring it back and they were going to be written by Robert Greenberger but I'm guessing that was abandoned due to the relaunch. While I'm at it...I'd like to see Secret Files and Origins return as well.

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/10-s...-future-1.html

[Nerys Myk]

I'd rather find things out via actual stories.

[Admiral_Young]

That really happens though, plot it so condensed nowadays we rarely find out anything about the characters. I realize too that there are wikipedia out there that do this kind of thing, but I still like the profile books. Just another area of nostalgia for them to try and recapture for sales anyways.

[Nerys Myk]

I dunno, Johns has been doing a good job of filling in Aquaman's past.

[Admiral_Young]

Indeed. I just know that I love these kinds of books so if DC ever do decide to bring them back, I'll be picking them up.

[shivkala]

#10 is what we've been discussing. Didn't the companies used to have "try-out" books? Using DC Presents as a means to introduce creators and concepts would be a great idea.

#9, I disagree with. I don't think anything would be gained at this point from another Crisis. I know we'll see one eventually, but for now, I'm content to let this universe grow on its own. I do agree we need to see more parallel Earths. Tie this with the DC Presents idea...let's have that book focus on various Earths as well.

#8, why not use Stormwatch as the rival group? We've already seen a confrontation between the League and J'onn. Members of Stormwatch have already hinted they are not fond of the League. The seeds are there.

#6, QR codes would a great way to do "Who's Who." Or maybe add in incentives for digital copies by including "Who's Who" pages.

[the G-man]

#9, I disagree with. I don't think anything would be gained at this point from another Crisis. I know we'll see one eventually, but for now, I'm content to let this universe grow on its own. I do agree we need to see more parallel Earths. Tie this with the DC Presents idea...let's have that book focus on various Earths as well.

If by 'Crisis' they mean an earth 1/earth 2 team up (ie what DC meant by Crisis pre-1986) I don't think that's necessarily a bad idea. After all thats more or less how earth 2 was introduced back in the 50s/60s

[Admiral_Young]

DC stated that Final Crisis would be their literal final crisis...and of course that could change at any time, but I don't think we'll see any titles with the word "crisis" for a while. This upcoming Trinity War story arc seems to be their first big New 52 "event".

[Captain Craig]

Read Animal Man Annual #1 which states it takes place right after Animal Man #9.
This is really the last prelude issue to the Swamp Thing/Animal Man crossover.
The tale is about the last most recent time that agent of the Red and Green had to "team up" to stop the Rot from usurping more power than it's entitled.

So Buddy Baker is an agent of the Red. I've been trying to figure this out. He's not just a lone totem, he's tied up in the Parliament etc etc.
I'm still learning about AM, have prior versions had him as an "Agent of the Red" before as well.

[Hound of UIster]

He is not a totem. His daughter is the totem. He is just the agent of the red.

I think it's also implied the true totem of the rot isn't Abbey or her brother, but Anton Arcane, the recurring nemesis of the Swamp Thing.

Edit: The Red was introduced by Moore back in Swamp Thing, Buddy as the Swamp Thing equivalent in the Red was introduced by one of the Vertigo writers that followed Morrison.