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Old June 1 2012, 07:13 PM   #121
sojourner
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Re: SpaceX is a go for April 30th: 1st commercial launch to space stat

Hyperspace05 wrote: View Post

Sojourner, are you on the nasaspaceflight.com forums? I post there quite a bit. (as Lars_J) I've expressed a lot of skepticism towards the speculation from that single image.
You know, the one thing that annoys me over there is the elitism of the posters. It seems that people go unresponded to if they are new to the site or haven't demonstrated their credentials. For example, I posted a perfectly reasonable question about the F9R first stage's center of gravity here and got no response at all.
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Old June 1 2012, 07:17 PM   #122
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Re: SpaceX is a go for April 30th: 1st commercial launch to space stat

sojourner wrote: View Post
Hyperspace05 wrote: View Post

Sojourner, are you on the nasaspaceflight.com forums? I post there quite a bit. (as Lars_J) I've expressed a lot of skepticism towards the speculation from that single image.
You know, the one thing that annoys me over there is the elitism of the posters. It seems that people go unresponded to if they are new to the site or haven't demonstrated their credentials. For example, I posted a perfectly reasonable question about the F9R first stage's center of gravity here and got no response at all.
While there is some elitism going there, I think that may just more of a case where people just don't know the answer.

I considered responding, but since I know jack, I would just be spouting BS. (hmm, which may not be much different from my normal posts)
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Old June 1 2012, 10:59 PM   #123
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Re: SpaceX is a go for April 30th: 1st commercial launch to space stat

New pictures released:


My new desktop background

Also, a new picture of the recovery:
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Old June 1 2012, 10:59 PM   #124
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Re: SpaceX is a go for April 30th: 1st commercial launch to space stat

Hyperspace05 wrote: View Post
sojourner wrote: View Post
Hyperspace05 wrote: View Post

Sojourner, are you on the nasaspaceflight.com forums? I post there quite a bit. (as Lars_J) I've expressed a lot of skepticism towards the speculation from that single image.
You know, the one thing that annoys me over there is the elitism of the posters. It seems that people go unresponded to if they are new to the site or haven't demonstrated their credentials. For example, I posted a perfectly reasonable question about the F9R first stage's center of gravity here and got no response at all.
While there is some elitism going there, I think that may just more of a case where people just don't know the answer.

I considered responding, but since I know jack, I would just be spouting BS. (hmm, which may not be much different from my normal posts)
Consider creating a second account to answer your ignored questions with obviously wrong bullshit. This will prompt outraged corrections from the elitists and you'll get the answers you need. I do that around here and it works all the time.


...


Uh ... whoops.
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Old June 1 2012, 11:13 PM   #125
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Re: SpaceX is a go for April 30th: 1st commercial launch to space stat

LOL!
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Old June 2 2012, 03:28 AM   #126
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Re: SpaceX is a go for April 30th: 1st commercial launch to space stat

Hyperspace05 wrote: View Post
newtype_alpha wrote: View Post
YellowSubmarine wrote: View Post
Those have to happen if Musk has any intention of fulfilling some of the things he has said so far. He is repeating over and over that one of his goals is Mars, and while Falcon Heavy can carry Martian payloads, it doesn't quite cut it. This and the other things that he have been mumbling are strongly suggesting that he intends to work on those (or similar ones) once he gets the opportunity.
That doesn't suggest they have any need for a heavy lift vehicle. Quite the opposite in fact, Musk probably envisions a spaceflight architecture based around the reusable Falcon 9H and dragon-derived orbiters. There isn't a whole lot you could do with a single HLV that couldn't be more efficiently accomplished with three MLVs, especially if the smaller rockets are reusable.
Once the reusable F9 is operational, the FH will be using the same reusable 1st stage as boosters. Their reusable work applies to future variants of both the F9 and FH.
I'm confused... are you saying the Falcon Heavy DOES qualify as an HLV?
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Old June 2 2012, 03:31 AM   #127
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Re: SpaceX is a go for April 30th: 1st commercial launch to space stat

YellowSubmarine wrote: View Post
Wouldn't heavier launchers be cheaper in terms of fuel though? FH can lift five times what F9 can, and uses, what, three times more fuel? If you:
1. Developed full reusability all the way to Mars.
2. Increased the size of the rocket/engines.
True as that is, the cost of the fuel is a VERY small expense for the overall launch budget. Off the top of my head, the larger and more sophisticated engines alone would easily offset any cost savings in fuel efficiency, to say nothing of the added cost of the rocket itself, extra man hours needed to get it flight ready, and the fixed cost of the larger and more complicated launch facilities needed to maintain it.
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Old June 2 2012, 06:01 AM   #128
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Re: SpaceX is a go for April 30th: 1st commercial launch to space stat

newtype_alpha wrote: View Post
I'm confused... are you saying the Falcon Heavy DOES qualify as an HLV?
It depends on how you define a HLV. (100mt capability? 70 mt? 50mt?) But it is a heavy version of the falcon 9.
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Old June 2 2012, 09:39 PM   #129
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Re: SpaceX is a go for April 30th: 1st commercial launch to space stat

I'd call 100 tons an HLLV. But F9 heavy comes in at what--40-53 tons is what i've heard. The reason I support a true HLLV isn't just mass but payload shrouds. A hydrolox core allows wide payload shrouds. F9 heavy is based on a denser kerolox platform. Also Josh Hopkins expressed certain "Doubts upon Depots" in an article for The Space Review, and an Aviation Week and Space Technology blurb I linked to over at www.bautforum.com months back cited a need for 36 Delta IV heavies--(or 24 F9s) for a depot. Moreover, it was shown that boil-off was a major stumbling block for now. An HLV allows less complex BEO missions in that all the fuel goes up at once, and is staged off as thrust--traded for inertia that cannot leak.

The current trend is for comsats to lose any on board liquid propellant for electric drives due to the problems many sat providers have had with thrusters going out and being forced to limp to orbit using electric systems--which will be a boon for Musk BTW:
http://www.spacenews.com/satellite_t...tric-sats.html

It's just best not to have a lot of plumbing and liquids sloshing around up there--with a lot of Rube Goldberg docking. An HLV allows for more direct missions with as few rendevous as needed. The Falcon XX is a possibility.
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Old June 2 2012, 09:51 PM   #130
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Re: SpaceX is a go for April 30th: 1st commercial launch to space stat

Yeah, it's a shame we don't have experience docking/building things in orbit... oh wait, ISS. It's also a shame we don't have experience transferring fuel on orbit... Oh wait, ISS.

Fuel depots are not a difficult concept and the benefits far outweigh the deficits.

HLV's are just not cost effective at one every 2 years. I'd rather have a medium launcher with a much higher (and successful) flight rate.
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Old June 2 2012, 10:31 PM   #131
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Re: SpaceX is a go for April 30th: 1st commercial launch to space stat

There are certain stumbling blocks to solve for cryogenic propellant depots, but it is unquestionable that it is going to happen real soon. We won't be able to afford going anywhere without it - even with "HLLV's".

Anyone expressing "doubts about depots" is heavily invested in creating huge launch vehicles we cannot afford to operate. I would express huge doubts about their objectivity. It's like arguing back in 1900 that gas stations were a bad idea - and they we should do all transportation with huge trucks that had to fill up at the refinery.

We don't need 100 mt launchers. Not even 70 mt. The solar system is open to us, with with even smaller launchers, such as FH. Even the Delta IV-Heavy (at 25 mt) could be used for lunar flights if we wanted to - only 3 launches per mission. And with the FH @ 50 mt, one launch is enough to send a spacecraft with crew or to resupply a Lagrange or lunar orbit station.

And until we have cryogenic depots, we can still do hypergolic depots. (which will certainly be needed for a reusable lunar lander) As sojourner states, we already have a hypergolic depot in orbit - ISS. We can build far better ones if we just fund it.
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Old June 3 2012, 01:27 PM   #132
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Re: SpaceX is a go for April 30th: 1st commercial launch to space stat

I'm a bit of a noob to all this so forgive the question. But what happens to the Dragon capsule now? Is it meant to be reused for another flight? Personally I'd love to see it end up in the Smithsonian at some point. It really is a piece of history.
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Old June 3 2012, 06:59 PM   #133
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Re: SpaceX is a go for April 30th: 1st commercial launch to space stat

Dragon capsule's are designed to be re-used, but this one is going on a road tour and will end up on display somewhere.
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Old June 3 2012, 07:02 PM   #134
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Re: SpaceX is a go for April 30th: 1st commercial launch to space stat

During one of the briefings it was mentioned that new Dragons will be constructed for all resupply missions, but some of them might be reused for other SpaceX uses, including DragonLab.
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Old June 3 2012, 07:05 PM   #135
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Re: SpaceX is a go for April 30th: 1st commercial launch to space stat

Sorry, but what is a hypergolic depot? And what would the purpose of a cyrogenic depot be in terms of storage?
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