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Old May 31 2012, 05:30 PM   #91
Dukhat
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Re: Matt Jefferies and NCC-1017

137th Gebirg wrote: View Post
Heh... 5 known canonical variants, to be precise:








And to be an even bigger nerd, the top diagram from the Fact Files is in fact inaccurate...the Norkova always looked exactly like the Xhosa in the second pic.
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Old May 31 2012, 05:32 PM   #92
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Re: Matt Jefferies and NCC-1017

Ahh...I see your Geek-Fu is greater than mine!

But do you know what part they used to make the propulsion emitters on all the miniatures?
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Old May 31 2012, 05:35 PM   #93
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Re: Matt Jefferies and NCC-1017

To nitpick, none of these was ever called Antares.

To nitpick further, none of these was ever indicated to be a Bajoran ship; the bottom design was hired by Bajorans, but indicated to be owned by Petarians, with a human skipper. It did happen to have a dedication plaque saying "Antares class", though. But off focus, and without dialogue to back it up.

Two designs have been referred to as Antares class onscreen. One was a Corvallen freighter ("Face of the Enemy"; recycled footage from "Outrageous Okona" IIRC) that was space dust by the time our heroes got there; the identification may have been incorrect, then. The other was indeed a Bajoran triangle-ship ("Ensign Ro"), but whether it was an Antares class vessel or a N'taaris class one, we don't know, because this time there is no written evidence.

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Old May 31 2012, 05:44 PM   #94
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Re: Matt Jefferies and NCC-1017

Timo wrote: View Post
To nitpick, none of these was ever called Antares.

To nitpick further, none of these was ever indicated to be a Bajoran ship; the bottom design was hired by Bajorans, but indicated to be owned by Petarians, with a human skipper. It did happen to have a dedication plaque saying "Antares class", though. But off focus, and without dialogue to back it up.

Two designs have been referred to as Antares class onscreen. One was a Corvallen freighter ("Face of the Enemy"; recycled footage from "Outrageous Okona" IIRC) that was space dust by the time our heroes got there; the identification may have been incorrect, then. The other was indeed a Bajoran triangle-ship ("Ensign Ro"), but whether it was an Antares class vessel or a N'taaris class one, we don't know, because this time there is no written evidence.
That's all correct. The only ships we know of that were referred to by the name "Antares" (whether a class or a ship name) were the Corvallen and Bajoran ships (dialogue), the Xhosa (dedication plaque), the S.S. Antares (Charlie X, dialogue and CGI model for TOS-R), and the U.S.S. Hermes (Antares class from the ST Encyclopedia). I also seem to recall some muddled reference in the Encyclopedia about the Batris, but I don't think it was ever confirmed.

(There's also a U.S.S. Antares from Star Trek '09, but that doesn't count...)

BTW Timo, does the closed-captioning for "Ensign Ro" state that the ship is "Antares?" Because that would be some kind of evidence that it wasn't "N'taaris," or something else.
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Old May 31 2012, 08:31 PM   #95
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Re: Matt Jefferies and NCC-1017

BTW Timo, does the closed-captioning for "Ensign Ro" state that the ship is "Antares?" Because that would be some kind of evidence that it wasn't "N'taaris," or something else.
No idea - the closed-captioning around here is a local job that I wouldn't consider relevant to the canon of the Trek universe. (I don't have any commercial Trek DVDs, just recordings of broadcasts. Plus some old commercial TOS and TNG VHS tapes. Sorry!)

Then again, even the Paramount bits are dubious at best. We don't want to believe in opening and end credits, now do we? Those are untrustworthy in two ways: Martok in DS9 may be a Dominion double agent, but he isn't a human triple agent whose real name is Hertzler... And Uhura doesn't spell or pronounce her name "Uhuru".

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Old May 31 2012, 09:08 PM   #96
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Re: Matt Jefferies and NCC-1017

Timo wrote: View Post
Then again, even the Paramount bits are dubious at best. We don't want to believe in opening and end credits, now do we?
Credits are not the same as captions. Captions are a written translation of the spoken dialogue. Credits are a list of the actors and production personnel, which have nothing to do with the fictional universe the show is about. So if the captions state that the ship is an Antares class vessel and not an N'Taaris class vessel, then an Antares class vessel it is.

Now with that said, I am fully aware that snafus happen during closed-captioning. The best one I can recall is when Kai Opaka says something to the effect of "Your pagh is strong," and the captioning reads "Your power is strong." (Unless she happened to lapse into a super-thick American southern accent when saying this word )

137th Gebirg wrote: View Post
But do you know what part they used to make the propulsion emitters on all the miniatures?
That I don't know. Care to enlighten me?
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Last edited by Dukhat; May 31 2012 at 09:27 PM.
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Old May 31 2012, 09:47 PM   #97
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Re: Matt Jefferies and NCC-1017

^^^ The rear engine nozzle of a Draconian Marauder model from Buck Rogers.
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Old May 31 2012, 10:22 PM   #98
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Re: Matt Jefferies and NCC-1017

There is another USS Antares (NCC-9844). It was built by the model maker Adam Buckner. This Antares was a Miranda-class variant with a Nebula-class type pod. Allegedly, this model was shot for scenes with Starbase 375.

http://flare.solareclipse.net/ultima...ic/6/2781.html

In the apocrypha, there was a further USS Antares, an Oberth-class scout, that was the setting for the Star Trek: Orion Rendezvous planetarium show. (Memory Alpha article - Antares, Apocrypha section)

Classes
* Antares-class Cruiser - Bajoran
* Antares-class Cruiser - Federation (SS Xhosa, Norkova)
* Antares-class Freighter - Corvallen
* Antares-class Starship - Federation/Starfleet

Starships
* Antares - 2260's cargo ship in service to Starfleet
* USS Antares - lead ship of the Antares-class starships
* USS Antares - Oberth-class scout (apocrypha)
* USS Antares (NCC-9844) - Miranda-class/Nebula-class variant
* USS Antares - starship set in an alternate reality

Historical Note: The lunar module for Apollo 14 was named Antares.
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Old May 31 2012, 11:24 PM   #99
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Re: Matt Jefferies and NCC-1017

Hmm.. What's the reason for calling the Bajoran ship a "cruiser"? Picard refers to a "carrier" in the dialogue of TNG "Ensign Ro".

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Old May 31 2012, 11:30 PM   #100
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Re: Matt Jefferies and NCC-1017

137th Gebirg wrote: View Post
^^^ The rear engine nozzle of a Draconian Marauder model from Buck Rogers.
Huh. That definitely looks to be the case. I'm surprised I never noticed that before, being the nerd that I am
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Old June 1 2012, 12:49 AM   #101
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Re: Matt Jefferies and NCC-1017

I based some of my list on information at Memory Alpha. I re-checked the dialogue, and you are right Timo.

I am puzzled by the SS Xhosa being classified as a 'cruiser'. The Xhosa is not a warship nor a cabin cruiser (pleasure boat). This ship is a freighter.

For those, like me, who don't remember or haven't watched Buck Rogers, here is the model kit for the Draconian Marauder.

http://www.fantastic-plastic.com/DRA...DER%20PAGE.htm
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Old June 1 2012, 01:14 AM   #102
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Re: Matt Jefferies and NCC-1017

throwback wrote: View Post
I am puzzled by the SS Xhosa being classified as a 'cruiser'. The Xhosa is not a warship nor a cabin cruiser (pleasure boat). This ship is a freighter.
Based on the dedication plaque alone, I would speculate that the vessel was once a Starfleet cruiser back during the TOS/TMP era, and by the TNG era it was relegated to freight duty (like the Lantree in "Unnatural Selection"). The Norkova was definitely in use by the Federation, if not Starfleet, and its interior looked similar to TNG-era Federation and/or Starfleet vessels. The Xhosa, the interior of which looks to be from the TOS era, could have been sold by the Federation and/or Starfleet to an independent owner, no longer being a ship of the line.

The only drawback to this theory is that the ship does not look in any way like a Starfleet vessel, with the usual saucer/nacelle configuration.
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Old June 1 2012, 08:10 AM   #103
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Re: Matt Jefferies and NCC-1017

Based on the dedication plaque alone (and indeed that's all there is to base anything on!), I'd say that Yates pinched or otherwise obtained the dedication plaque of the 23rd century Starfleet cruiser USS Xhosa of Antares class, or at least a good replica thereof, and thought that it would look cool on the wall of her own freighter SS Xhosa of Masai class.

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Old June 1 2012, 12:48 PM   #104
Timo
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Re: Matt Jefferies and NCC-1017

Another thing to consider: when the class of a military vessel is mentioned today, it can indicate one of two things - the specific design of the ship, or the intended purpose of the ship. That is, if a ship is identified as Ticonderoga class, you can tell she's built to the same specs as several other vessels of which USS Ticonderoga was the first; if she is identified as minehunter class, you can tell she's built for minehunting. (There's a grey area unless you know the terminology, of course; you might mistake "AEGIS class" for the first case when it's actually the second.)

However, when the class of a civilian vessel other than cruise ship is mentioned, it's virtually never the first case, and basically always the second. If you see a container ship, it's unlikely she would represent a class in the sense of being built to the specs of a pathfinding ship; she might well be unique, but what I mean is that her "lineage" would most probably be irrelevant to you. But you would be highly interested in whether she's Panamax class, New Panamax class, Aframax class, or perhaps Malaccamax class.

Quite possibly "Antares class" could be a Star Trek universe expression for ships in the size range of Kasidy Yates' freighter, then, encompassing hundreds of distinct designs and variants as long as they share the size. Or some other attribute of relevance to Star Trek freight hauling...

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Old June 1 2012, 01:30 PM   #105
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Re: Matt Jefferies and NCC-1017

Timo wrote: View Post
Based on the dedication plaque alone (and indeed that's all there is to base anything on!), I'd say that Yates pinched or otherwise obtained the dedication plaque of the 23rd century Starfleet cruiser USS Xhosa of Antares class, or at least a good replica thereof, and thought that it would look cool on the wall of her own freighter SS Xhosa of Masai class.
I'm pretty sure that was not Okuda's intention when he made the plaque.
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