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Old May 29 2012, 09:48 PM   #4261
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Captain Craig wrote: View Post
^^^
I thought it was a good issue. I didn't find it odd, any odder than what or how the characters within the book have been operating thus far.
it wasn't bad...just felt odd with Trevor suddenly coming in and having Constantine put the team back together. and even though i'm reading Swamp Thing it felt like they just threw Black Orchid in there without much reason.
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Old May 30 2012, 12:58 AM   #4262
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

I'm not reading Swamp Thing, but I gather Black Orchid is related to that title somehow. The 9th issue of JLD was a little jarring, but that's to be expected given Lemire suddenly taking over from Millington.
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Old May 30 2012, 05:16 AM   #4263
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

So it's been one year since the relaunch announcement was made...I think one year and two weeks since Bleeding Cool broke the story. It was some time mid May since the official announcement I believe was supposed to be the first weekend in June. What are your thoughts and opinions on it so far? What books are you currently still reading? What have been your favorites? Has it been worth it for you? Are you more invested in the 52'Verse than the DCU before it? I think I've made my opinions pretty clear. DC has lost me due to this relaunch for the most part. So many flaws and problems with the relaunch. Some of it has been good...most really not so much to me. If anything...it's made me embrace Marvel again.
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Old May 30 2012, 05:30 AM   #4264
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

I stopped reading DC back after the original Crisis because I felt that I had been robbed of my fifteen year investment in their universe. I thought the new universe was flawed and poorly planned and executed.

Over the years I returned briefly, and even followed a lot of story lines following the Infinite Crisis.

This reboot, mainly due to the company finally embracing digital comics, has brought me back. The universe is not any more flawed than I remember and I figure things will work out. For the first time in twenty years (the Death of Superman saga), DC has got my money.

My favorites are Action, Batman, Demon Knights, and Aquaman. I like Green Lantern, Green Lantern Corps, Superman, and Dectective and hope the enjoy Earth 2.
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Old May 30 2012, 05:42 AM   #4265
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Admiral_Young wrote:
What are your thoughts and opinions on it so far?
Fun and frustrating it's nice to have a place to jump on with new titles and lots of new titles I'm glad DC at least tried to have titles featuring more obscure characters like OMAC. However we lost a lot of great things like the entire JSA and most of the characters associated with it a lot of other characters are still MIA.
Admiral_Young wrote:
What books are you currently still reading? What have been your favorites?
I'm still reading Swamp Thing I've also really liked the dark titles as a whole.
Admiral_Young wrote:
Has it been worth it for you? Are you more invested in the 52'Verse than the DCU before it?
I'd say I've invested in about the same amount of time and money currently into DC as if there was no reboot since a lot of things could have been done without the reboot like the new Swamp Thing title. Ironically I dumped the main GL title thinking that they'd wipe all the old GL continuity but as it turned out the GL book were least affected by the changes and I agree with that since if it isn't broke don't fix it. (internet whining about Johns not withstanding)
Admiral_Young wrote:
If anything...it's made me embrace Marvel again.
The main things that keep me from embracing Marvel again is the 3.99 price point on their books.
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Old May 30 2012, 10:19 AM   #4266
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
Wonder Woman continues to be awesome. I am wondering when we're going to start shifting with all the mythology to the real world. I think we've only seen Steve Trevor in Justice League so far and minor details of Diana's past.

Action Comics was also awesome...I liked President Ellis/Superman and the origin was very cool. I'd love to see more of Earth-23.
The Amazons have been killed or displaced with Wonder Woman left to find herself have her background redefined all to many times since Rucka left that I can't get up any interest in Azzarello's story. For a character whose supposed to leave her home and go out into the world, she ends up back in Amazon/God land more quickly than Mike Corleone being pulled back into the Family.
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Old May 30 2012, 10:51 AM   #4267
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

We've not seen Diana's origin story in the 52'Verse yet. They've introduced her as established already...and we've seen an earlier more naive version of the character in the opening arc of Justice League. All we know about her in the present time of the real world is that she's involved with Steve Trevor.

I like what Azzarello has done with the Greek Pantheon personally. I thought Ruka's run was decent, but Azzarello has made things interesting IMO.
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Old May 30 2012, 11:26 AM   #4268
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
We've not seen Diana's origin story in the 52'Verse yet. They've introduced her as established already...and we've seen an earlier more naive version of the character in the opening arc of Justice League. All we know about her in the present time of the real world is that she's involved with Steve Trevor.

I like what Azzarello has done with the Greek Pantheon personally. I thought Ruka's run was decent, but Azzarello has made things interesting IMO.
We have seen pimp daddy Zeus and discovered her culture is made up of murderers and child traffickers for arms, but I can see what folks might enjoy. For me, the Amazons were gone after Rucka and Diana had to find herself in the wake of Inf. Crisis, again after Amazons Attack, again in small offering in Simone's run, again with JMS/Hester, and now once more. I have no interest in going around the hamster wheel again.
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Old May 30 2012, 01:03 PM   #4269
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

That implies what Rucka did wasn't just another turn of the Hamster wheel. Except of course it pretty much was. Taking the Amazons off the table had already been done before by his hero Denny O'Neil and of course they had returned before. What Rucka take was just another iteration of the same idea.

I like what Azzarello has done with the Greek Pantheon personally. I thought Ruka's run was decent, but Azzarello has made things interesting IMO.
I liked that he had Athena overthrow Zeus. That was actually an idea in the myths that was never properly articulated.

I think what Azarello understood at least better than Rucka or his predecessors was that Amazons who were the product of the Greek world and worldview shouldn't be this idealized society based on rationality and respect. The world that they came from was still very much a barbaric and savage place that had no concept of human rights or rule of law.

We have seen pimp daddy Zeus and discovered her culture is made up of murderers and child traffickers for arms
This is essentially the Amazonian take on the Spartan practice of leaving the unwanted infants out to die of exposure. Except in this case they are traded off to Hephaestus.

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Old May 30 2012, 02:27 PM   #4270
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

[QUOTE]
Hound of UIster wrote: View Post
That implies what Rucka did wasn't just another turn of the Hamster wheel. Except of course it pretty much was. Taking the Amazons off the table had already been done before by his hero Denny O'Neil and of course they had returned before. What Rucka take was just another iteration of the same idea.
O'Niel was in the 70's, so hardly a hampster wheel before Rucka. Since Rucka, it's been nearly a yearly event.
I like what Azzarello has done with the Greek Pantheon personally. I thought Ruka's run was decent, but Azzarello has made things interesting IMO.
I liked that he had Athena overthrow Zeus. That was actually an idea in the myths that was never properly articulated.

I think what Azarello understood at least better than Rucka or his predecessors was that Amazons who were the product of the Greek world and worldview shouldn't be this idealized society based on rationality and respect. The world that they came from was still very much a barbaric and savage place that had no concept of human rights or rule of law.
Marston and Perez weren't doing a Greek demonizing the other (especially those awful Amazon women) rather an enlightened culture that had something positive to offer in the person of Diana. Now, anything positive is in spite of her culture.
We have seen pimp daddy Zeus and discovered her culture is made up of murderers and child traffickers for arms
This is essentially the Amazonian take on the Spartan practice of leaving the unwanted infants out to die of exposure. Except in this case they are traded off to Hephaestus.
Don't give a damn, this is a comic which once depicted a culture of women who were enlightened, heroic and worthy of emulation. Now, not so much.
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Old May 30 2012, 02:50 PM   #4271
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

O'Niel was in the 70's, so hardly a hampster wheel before Rucka.
O'Neil - Amazons, leave the Earth for another dimension
Messner Loebs - Amazons disappear into another dimension
Rucka - Amazons leave the Earth for another dimension

Hardly very original any way you spin it.

Marston and Perez weren't doing a Greek demonizing the other
The Amazons in the comics are an offshoot of Greek society.

Marston and Perez were influence by the West's idealization and fetishisation of the Greek society as a society of logic and reason and the cradle of democracy. The Amazons in those comics were extension of that.

Azarello approached the Amazons in what we now know about the Greek. Essentially a society like any other during that time where the strong ruled, where dignity, right of law, civil society and human rights had never developed, where superstition was triumphant over reason.

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Old May 30 2012, 02:58 PM   #4272
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Hound of UIster wrote: View Post
O'Niel was in the 70's, so hardly a hampster wheel before Rucka.
O'Neil - Amazons, leave the Earth for another dimension
Messner Loebs - Amazons disappear into another dimension
Rucka - Amazons leave the Earth for another dimesnion

It's the same wheel that has been reinvented before. Trying to imply that he was more original than his predecessors is naturally wrong.
And Messner Leobs was 20 or so years ago, nor did I say Rucka (Or Johns, since the disappearing of the Amazons was a tie in to Johns' Inf Crisis, and not part of Rucka's plot originally) was more creative. However, since Rucka, this story idea is almost yearly, which you conveniently dropped off the quote.
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Old May 30 2012, 03:14 PM   #4273
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

What are you talking about it?

Nothing like that happened in Simone or JMS's run.

Simone: Amazon diaspora.
JMS: WW is folded into an alternate reality.

And Messner Leobs was 20 or so years ago
Messner Loebs-1992-1995
Greg Rucka 2003-2006
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Old May 30 2012, 03:21 PM   #4274
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

Hound of UIster wrote: View Post
What are you talking about it?

Nothing like that happened in Simone or JMS's run.

Simone: Amazon diaspora.
JMS: WW is folded into an alternate reality.

And Messner Leobs was 20 or so years ago
Messner Loebs-1992-1995
Greg Rucka 2003-2006
What I said
For me, the Amazons were gone after Rucka and Diana had to find herself in the wake of Inf. Crisis, again after Amazons Attack, again in small offering in Simone's run, again with JMS/Hester, and now once more. I have no interest in going around the hamster wheel again.
Amazons gone, Diana must redefine herself. Nearly every year, I'm sick of reading this story.
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Old May 30 2012, 03:26 PM   #4275
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Re: DC's New 52: Reviews and Discussion (Spoilers welcolme and likely)

The relaunch got me into comics again since I didn't have to worry about the years of continuity I had missed.

On the launch I started reading over the course of a month or two in picking up #1s:

Action Comics
Superman
Supergirl

Detective Comics
Batman
The Dark Knight
Batman & Robin
Catwoman
Batgirl

Aquaman
The Flash
Wonder Woman

I've only completely dropped B&R and I'm fenced with WW with it possibly being dropped. All of the other titles I still quite enjoy and don't see myself dropping any time soon.
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